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Comments:
<0> BobJensen,, hahaha...cool
<1> huzzah, it now works :)
<1> just had to remove everything remotley .Xauthority in my home dir :)
<0> Gotta go eat
<0> later all
<2> Hi Corwyn
<2> later planktonboy
<0> bbiab
<0> cheers Bob
<3> hey Bob
<4> I'm trying to install FC5 on a system with 2 sata drives (did the same thing last night on a different computer). Now in this case the installer doesn't see 2 distinct drives but instead /dev/mapper devices. How do I get around this so that I can use the installer to create raid arrays etc on the actual devices?
<5> tharvey: the devices are there, but they appear as LVM devices, probably because there used to be LVM partitions on there
<5> you should still be able to create RAID/LVM stuff with them
<4> ya... there was. So I need to get the fedora installer to not see them that way... how can that be done? Can I disable device-mapper somehow during drive detect?
<5> just delete the pre-existing partitions
<5> tharvey: you don't need to do that
<4> I deleted the partitions but no 'drives' show up to create new raid partitions on
<4> under 'drives' it just shows /dev/mapper/via_cfgagbiacep1 and 2, which don't match the physical drives
<5> you're doing manual partitioning?
<4> yes, because I want to setup the 2 drives as a RAID1 mirrored array
<4> (and I have to do that manually right? at least, thats what I did on the other sys last night... diff being those drives were new so there was no previous lvm on them)
<5> maybe you just need to delete the LVM volumes? I'm not sure - I usually tell it to do automatic partitioning, but then 'review and modify' the partitions it creates
<5> and then I just modify it from there
<6> tharvey: if you do the mirroring with LVM2 the installed probably does that for you...
<5> I'm not sure why the manual partitioning would not show the physical devices
<5> that's strange. might be a bug.
<4> I don't see how the fedora installer does RAID1 mirroring for you... you have to create the raid partitions then create a RAID1 array over them yourself
<4> is there a kernel param I can somehow p*** in to disable dm?
<6> tharvey: DM can do mirroring under LVM2.
<4> I guess I can boot via some rescue and whack the partition table
<7> tharvey: specify what physical drives to scan in lvm.conf, if thats the problem
<4> Blis***, I'm not understanding how to set that up other than by manually doing it
<4> I'm trying to install a new system here... via anaconda
<7> what do you mean manually, the installer just lets you click it toghether graphically, ie no manual mdadm.conf editing
<7> cant anaconda delete the lvm partitions?
<4> ok here is what I have: 2 120GB identical SATA drives. I simply want to setup my system for redundancy by mirroring the drives (using software raid not fakeraid so if my mb craps out I'm not stuck)
<6> tharvey: mirroring the drives is a bit like the wrong approach...
<4> you can delete the lvm partitions but then it still won't show you the actual drives, just the dm devs
<7> tharvey: are you sure?
<4> torbjorn, I just tried it
<7> there is a check box for showing them
<6> tharvey: so perhaps reread carefully how RAID happens...
<7> could you have checked that? or unchecked it?
<7> for hiding them i mean
<7> something like "hide raid/lvm members"
<7> but just drop to shell and remove any lvm headers
<7> go to lvm shell, then pvremove
<4> Blis***, what do you suggest? I've setup raid0, raid1, raid5 arrays for a couple of years. I'm just not sure how to tell Fedoras isntaller to do that manually. It seems to want to always use LVM to create a single device spanning the multiple drives. Unless, I manually delete all the partitions and create them myself in the installer (which I can't do with dm in its current state)
<7> then afterwards lvmdiskscan
<4> torbjorn, let me switch monitors back and see if hiding raid/lvm makes a diff
<7> granted
<7> tharvey: then there is shell.. as i described
<6> tharvey: you can either mirror _partitions_ or their LVM equivalent, not _drives_....
<7> Blis***: no, he can mirror drives
<6> torbjorn: with fakeraid in particular, but it is not a good idea anyhow.
<7> why not?
<4> the installer sees a SINGLE drive in the system /dev/mapper/....
<7> tharvey: thats all?
<7> tharvey: drop to shell, fdisk -l
<6> torbjorn: because then one sort of _needs_ DM/mirroring
<7> make sure they are there
<4> There is no way for me to get it to show me the actual drives... it shows me a single dm drive 2x the size of each drive. The drives ARE in the system it knows it... its just dm'ing them together
<7> tharvey: lvm right?
<7> tharvey: did you understand what my shell suggestion was all about?
<5> tharvey: I'm not sure what's going on there - I just booted the FC5 install disc on my machine that's got LVM on it
<5> and it shows me "Drive /dev/sda"
<4> fakeraid is not a good idea right? b/c if your mb craps out then you most likely have a couple of mirrored drives that no other mb can use
<7> tharvey: go to lvm shell, pvremove, then lvmdiskscan, maybe the gui can take it from there after alittle back/next amgic
<7> Blis***: i dont quite get you.. then again its late here
<7> Blis***: you risk the kernel fails autodetect, thats the only problem i can see
<4> wwoods: its because these particular two drives currently have an LVM on them. I want to obliterate it however and start over. If i had two 'new' drives it woudln't behave this way... dm would not kick in
<7> tharvey: are you reading my lvm and pvremove suggestion?
<6> tharvey: just write zeroes on the first 1MB or so of each drive....
<5> tharvey: you could probably do as torbjorn describes to delete the LVM volumes, then reboot the installer
<7> tharvey: you know you can drop to shell during installation?
<4> ya... I think that is what I need to do... manually whack them and reinstall
<5> and all should be well
<4> tobrjorn, no thats what I just saw you say... how can I drop to shell and manually muck with things?
<6> tharvey: 'cp /dev/zero /dev/sda' and kill it after a few seconds.
<5> probably you don't even need to reboot, just back out of the partitioning screen
<7> tharvey: ctrl+alt+f2
<6> tharvey: CTRL-ALT-F2
<7> ctrl+alt+f7 to get back up in anaconda
<4> ok, that should work... let me give it a shot. Thanks... never knew there was a hotkey to do that
<4> brb
<7> Blis***: im currently running a couple of software raid5's on whole disks
<7> Blis***: did you or did you not say that was not possible?
<6> torbjorn: thats only because you are using '/dev/hda' as if it were a partition...
<7> Blis***: as long as boot can read mdadm.conf there seems to be no problems
<6> torbjorn: it is not a good idea, and RAID5 too.
<7> Blis***: i see
<7> yeah i know
<6> torbjorn: it is a very fragile situation.
<6> torbjorn: like what about using a liveCD?
<8> jeez... how long can a friggin transaction test take?
<7> it just.. keeps working though
<6> torbjorn: the one case where I'd use '/dev/hda' as a partition for RAID is RAID1...
<7> Blis***: ***mble array from mdadm.conf?
<7> then lvmdiskscan? that would bring my lvm/raid5 system up again
<7> from livecd
<6> torbjorn: yes, if you can access it :-). It just adds complexity.
<7> Blis***: i dont keep my mdadm.conf on the raid :p
<6> torbjorn: ohhhhhhhh. You like to live slightly dangerously :-)
<7> hehe
<4> dang... installer is sneaky. I deleted the partition tables and rebooted and it still dm'd them
<7> tharvey: pvremove?
<6> torbjorn: the ''prudent'' thing is to have at least the boot partition mirrored, and then whatever else like you want it.
<4> ya, I'll try that or cp /dev/zero to the drives
<9> anyone can help me with a simple script im trying to write? Im trying to check if a service is running, if not then i want to start it
<7> tharvey: lvm starts a shell, in the shell, run pvremove as apropriate
<6> tharvey: just zero the !"$% drive, or even them and sandblast the platters :-)
<7> Blis***: i keep the "system" on a simple, one drive, lvm disk, then /home on a couple of 3-4 raid5 devices in one vg
<6> blkcamarozr28: thats extremely difficult.
<9> blis***: really? can do it with grep?
<7> Blis***: service foo status
<7> wops, blkcamarozr28 i ment
<6> blkcamarozr28: however for misguided attempts to do it, have a look at many scripts in '/etc/rc.d/init.d/'
<7> im sure it returns a usefull exit value
<4> so back on the RAID1 mirror discussion: what I've been doing is deleting the autopartitions that Fedora creates, then creating a 100MB boot and the rest a raid, which I then create an md0 with the one from the other drive. Unforutnately this doesn't mirror the entire system just the swap/rfs (not boot)
<10> blkcamarozr28: have a look at the init scripts already installed, they use a combination of pid file, subsys lock files etc..
<6> torbjorn: it is useful only _most_ times.
<4> so I'm a little unclear how to do a simple full drive raid1 array. You can't have /boot on a raid1 array?
<6> torbjorn: unfortunately the very concept of ''service'' and ''active service'' is fuzzy.
<7> Blis***: well yes
<6> tharvey: as a special case you can have '/boot' on RAID1.
<6> tharvey: but not the partition table...
<7> tharvey: 100 mb sda1, 100 mb sdb1, 120 gb sda2, 120 gb sdb2
<7> Blis***: i dont think anaconda lets you do that
<7> tharvey: im sure you will be using lvm on the raid1 system?
<9> Plokta: Looking at doing "service spam***-milter status" and if it comes back as failed i want to run "service spm***-milter start". And just run this as a cron job
<4> it doesn't
<4> yes, LVM over the raid1
<7> tharvey: just create two partitions as i described
<7> boot on sda2
<7> sda1 i mean
<7> then add sda2 and sdb2 to the raid1
<4> I didn't realize it would let you put boot on a raid1... I'll do that
<7> and lvm from md0
<7> tharvey: dont
<7> tharvey: i mean, i dont think it does
<7> tharvey: but you want to mirror the drives, right? and you need a /boot?
<4> so if it doesn't I would have to manually sync my 100MB boot partitions and manually grub them?
<7> tharvey: do you need to morror /boot?
<7> tharvey: i dont think grub can read it anyway
<4> I dunno... otherwise if you loose /boot you loose your kernel
<6> tharvey: as I was saying it is impossible to RAID1 a whole disk, because the partition table cannot be RAID'ed. So you can RAID a whole disk only if you handle it as if it were a single partition, like <7> is doing. But then the better idea is to have '/boot' as RAID1 as he says and LVM2 the rest.
<10> blkcamarozr28: as Blis*** pointed out, the term service is pretty meaningless. The whole 'service' concept is a mistake IMHO, init scripts have always been initscripts
<7> yeah. just do a dd backup of /boot each kernel upgrade if you worry
<7> Blis***: hm.. im actually saying raid1 sda2 and sdb2, put boot on /sda1 and live with 100 mb useless sdb1
<4> back in the days of FC3 I had a RAID1 array for /boot and a RAID0 array with LVM for swap/rfs... then I tried to upgrade to FC5 and FC5 can't seem to handle that. Yet FC3 did... I created it manually (somehow) and ran it for over a year
<6> torbjorn: ahhhhh but one _can_ RAID1 'sda1' and 'sdb1'
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