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Comments:
<0> DanF_DrC: I cant because if e exists e is everywhere and I cant make an control experiment where he isnt. And if e doenst exists I cant do an control experiment where e does exists
<1> Well, its either random chance (Highly unlikely), God did it (the bastard... quit screwing with our medicine) or microevolution
<1> Microevolution is generally regarded as undebatable
<2> urthenrampage, sounds about right
<1> Macroevolution (Species generation, etc) I can understand as being debatable because we cannot observe it, just its effects.
<0> urthenrampage: we cant usualy observe geology in action but we see its effects. Is induction from observation lesser than the observations themselfs?
<2> play with GA
<2> observe it's powerlessness
<2> ironically evolution is taken on faith
<1> Intelligent Design is as well, so taking it on faith can hardly be used as a derogative.
<0> doesnt faith kill independant thought and critisism?
<2> urthenrampage, nor did I
<1> It basically comes down to do you think God set everything up, including making the fossils look millions of years old, or did it happen on its own.
<1> I have no clue myself.
<2> Zarutian, no
<1> But to completely exclude either theory is being ignorant of the fact we know nothing about the history of the universe, really.
<2> urthenrampage, that's defeatist. as I said, play with GA and realize on your own
<1> well genetic algorithms are artifically bound
<2> GA is simulated evolution. like simulated phyics must fit reality same applies for evolution
<1> GA can only simulate what we can program into rules
<2> obviously
<2> evolution is not a complicated ruleset though
<1> Well in theory, no.
<2> survival of the survivor
<2> if it lives, it lives
<1> The complexity comes from determining the environment.
<2> set it in motion and watch what happens
<2> you mean from the environment
<1> The environment basically is 99.9% of evolution.
<1> Well... I mean programming suitable environments into the simulated world.
<2> it dictates the specifics. not the principle
<0> genotype affects phenotype and the survival of the phenotype affects the genotype, yes?
<2> try it
<0> DanF_DrC: do you have an link to an GA with entropy level in the enviroment comparative to the entropy level of the real world?
<2> or you can google for what GA has accomplished in all known uses. it aint much
<0> so let say that GA is an dead end. What other method do we have?
<2> Zarutian, if you want entropy in the simulation you can include it. let's not pretent it matters to the principle
<2> Zarutian, alternatives are irrelevant to the point
<1> There really is no underlying principle to Evolution. As I understand and argue it, Evolution dictates that once self replication has been reached, "organisms" as they may will survive, and more of those better adapted will survive, leading to even better adapted animals.
<1> Once you get beyond "The survivors survive" or "Survival of the fittest," evolutionary theory becomes complex.
<1> Because obviously not only the absolute fittest survives
<1> Given genetic diversity.
<0> if the absolute fittest survived then over specaliation has occured and life has less chance to be than before, yes?
<2> the complexity should arise from the simple principle if valid. it does not hence it is not. don't hide in complexity that isn't there
<1> Well, you cant say evolution is a simple theory.
<2> of course I can. more importantly it is
<0> DanF_DrC: you an reductionist? (you dont have to dignify this with an answear)
<1> If you think evolution is simple, and you think only simple theories are valid, then you misunderstand evolution
<2> Zarutian, only where it applies
<2> urthenrampage, that was quite a misrepresentation of my views
<1> Well, you stated evolution is a simple theory.
<2> but you are too afraid to see for now so I won't attempt to force your hand
<3> <Imaginos@ef> hi
<2> hi
<2> bbl
<1> Danf_DrC: Cya later
<1> Alrelay: Hello
<3> <Imaginos@ef> so looking for some open source LSA tools
<0> Imaginos: LSA?
<3> <Imaginos@ef> latent semantic analysis
<3> <Imaginos@ef> iv'e been toying with infomap-nlp
<3> <Imaginos@ef> but
<3> <Imaginos@ef> it doesn't handle large corpi well
<3> <Imaginos@ef> and it doesn't do stemming, collocation scanning, etc
<3> <Imaginos@ef> so have had to do alot of work arounds
<3> <Imaginos@ef> i have other algorithms i have to plug into it as well, ie headwords analysis
<3> <Imaginos@ef> so
<1> Sorry to say, I have no idea what you are talking about. Not that deep into AI, just a hobbyist :-/
<3> <Imaginos@ef> oh, thats ok
<3> <Imaginos@ef> figured it would be worth asking
<3> <Imaginos@ef> i thing neph might know what i'm looking for
<1> if you'd like to talk about artificial intelligence and human evolution, though, we'd be happy to oblige :-)
<3> <Imaginos@ef> when is he usually on ?
<1> No idea, never been in here before.
<3> <Imaginos@ef> well i can throw in that given human evolution conversation, there is no apparent evolution of "self awareness" or the sense of "soul" as it were
<3> <Imaginos@ef> thats always a fun argument :P
<1> Myes, the origins of the human conciousness is the part that leads me to believe something strange is going on in our universe that we have not even begun to comprehend.
<1> Though I believe it may lie somewhere after the evolution of "Fun."
<3> <Imaginos@ef> have you read "the gr***hopper", by Benard Suite ?
<1> No. Why, is it good?
<3> <Imaginos@ef> er
<1> I derive a lot of my philosophy from "Flatland," though the author continues to evade me.
<3> <Imaginos@ef> suits
<3> <Imaginos@ef> yeah
<3> <Imaginos@ef> i think so
<3> <Imaginos@ef> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0879238402/sr=8-1/qid=1151975078/ref=sr_1_1/103-9717797-0715835?ie=UTF8
<1> Its about life as a 2 dimensional triangle who was suddenly thrust through 0-, 1-, and 3- dimensional universes by a sphere.
<3> <Imaginos@ef> yeah, i know of flatland
<3> <Imaginos@ef> have you read flatterland ?
<1> No. Sequel? Or related somehow?
<3> <Imaginos@ef> its related
<3> <Imaginos@ef> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0738204420/qid=1151975113/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-9717797-0715835?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
<1> Flatland taught me to never accept anything as a given.
<4> test
<1> you fail.
<4> d'oh
<1> Oh, its ok, we're all winners in our heart!
<4> whew
<3> <Imaginos@ef> i was related a story by a friend
<1> Actually understanding Flatland back in 9th grade when it was required reading for our entire math cl*** gave me major brownie points with my teacher. The entirety of discussion was basically me and him talking, with some people interjecting because they didnt understand at all.
<3> <Imaginos@ef> who attended a linguists lecture
<3> <Imaginos@ef> where the speaker said that in every language there a term expressing 'YES'
<3> <Imaginos@ef> and YES only means YES and nothing else, so there is no ambiguity
<3> <Imaginos@ef> then a guy in the back yelled "yeah, yeah"
<3> <Imaginos@ef> the story is funnier in person when you here the hint of sarcasm of the 'yeah, yeah'
<1> lol
<3> <Imaginos@ef> but i think its bloody hilarious
<1> Dont worry, intellectual jokes arent lost on me
<5> where are we relaying from?
<5> from/to
<5> efnet?
<1> freenode
<3> <Motivez@ef> efnet <-> freenode yeah
<1> intellectual jokes are funny twice to me, because they are amusing to begin with, then i can laugh at the people who dont get them.
<5> I thought the efnet channel was all about idling
<3> <Imaginos@ef> you mean like the old "there are 10 people who understand binary, those who do and those who don't"
<1> HAH! Perfect example.
<1> I have that shirt
<1> You can always tell the liberal arts majors at my school because they are the only ones that dont get it.
<3> <Imaginos@ef> heh
<3> <Imaginos@ef> ok
<3> <Imaginos@ef> well, i got to go
<3> <Imaginos@ef> er
<3> <Imaginos@ef> have to go
<3> <Imaginos@ef> whatever
<3> <Imaginos@ef> you guys taker easy
<1> Close enough. Bye.
<3> <parser@ef> good god
<3> <parser@ef> you guys still havent made ai yet!
<3> <parser@ef> jk
<2> says who
<2> anyone know if there is a clear best stereo vision algo around?
<6> We're relayed again?!
<6> Frikkin' sweet!
<7> can someone direct me to URL about A* optimization?
<6> Aw, A* is cool.
<7> yea
<7> i'm not sure if it's just python or my A* is slow
<7> i use minmax heap for open list
<7> and a hash table to check if a particular state is in the table
<8> citrus, what kind of problem are you trying to solve with A*?
<7> path finding on a map
<7> http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/1027
<9> how's your heuristic?
<7> it's manhatten distance
<9> hmm.
<9> not straight-line?
<9> hmm. I see why you'd want manhatten.
<7> well
<7> it's path finding, and obsticle avoidance, if i use ecludian distance function, i might run into an obsticle and they haveto walk around it, along it's side, which isn't the shortest path
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