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Comments:
<0> nerp: So's mine.
<1> and like I said, viruses and spyware are irrelevant to me.. thank god my behavior doesn't make me suseptible
<1> if it happens, i'll let you all know
<0> nerp: I do browse a lot of porn sites, and a lot of warez sites, and a few crack sites.
<0> Oddly enough I've only ever had one spyware problem.
<2> nerp: hehe i haven't shut down my systems in months. couple reboots for updates/upgrades but that's about it
<1> see, i do NONE of that. . .
<0> And, again, it was my own fault.
<3> my 'idle' setup has an irc client, firefox with a few tabs and an rss aggregator, thunderbird for email, a dozen or so terminal windows, and one of three bit torrent clients
<1> and yeah, even that isn't so dangerous if you knowwtf you're doing
<0> nerp: And don't use IE to do it. :)
<2> sparr the point being made is.. it rreally *is* user knowledge and control.
<1> yeah i use firefox and accept its bloat and poor performance.
<0> Those sorts of sites tend to prey on IE vulnerabilities.
<1> but i usually just go to the same basic sites over and over
<3> 2.5 years of xp installation and you havent once had to dig around and find uninstalled program leftovers to delete?
<1> ok i aught to get back to work, i'm stalling. :D
<2> i hit a lot of the things nerp and fdiv_bug do, and i've had exactly 3 alerts from monitorings. mainly dealing with a crack site trying ti install a trojan using an activex control
<1> sparr - why would you? unless you install mountains of crappy, poorly written software
<1> which I make sure not to do
<2> and even that can be avoided by **appropriate** use of the zone isolation settings
<1> see, i avoid that problem by not going ot crack sites. :D
<1> either buy the software or be leet and get the original release. :D
<2> nerp: as would I if i didn't as well. but alas I do, and that's the reason for the monitors.
<0> sparr: Is there "litter" on my computer left from an unfinished or improper software uninstall? Probably. Does it bother me? Not so long as it's not ****ing with anything else.
<1> hell, there are bittorrent tracker sites that have all the latest oday warez
<1> virus free
<1> original scene rars
<1> why the hell people are digging through lame*** crack sites is beyond me
<2> well I'm a disabled vet that works from home, and very little cash comes in. enough to cover basic life expenses. I'll continue to get what i need from 'the net'
<1> fdiv - yeah, people think the size of the registry or # of entries affects performance
<2> but even that aside, it's NOT hard to protect yourself
<1> unless the entry is DOING something, it don't mean ****
<0> Deryl: I know a few disabled vets. Veterinary medicine must be a dangerous business.
<1> does a piece of paper in a drawer make your desk less efficient >
<0> ;)
<1> if the surface is clear, your surface is clear
<2> fdiv_bug: HAH!
<2> ;)
<0> Seriously, I'll be here all week.
<3> nerp: im talking about my entertainment machine at this point, not my desktop. so yes, i install a dozen crappy poorly written games a week. and keep one, maybe.
<0> Tip your waitress, folks.
<1> mmm i love email flirtation with press girls
<0> nerp: It's not nice to press girls, you know.
<0> You should ask politely but if they decline then let it go.
<1> sparr - it still shouldn't matter if the game leaves behind registry entries
<0> sparr: You should probably read reviews before installing all those games, then.
<3> nerp: it matters more when it leaves behind files
<1> hell, regedit -- search "game" - delete key, f3, delete key, f3, delete key
<1> easy
<2> not to mention you know how many registry cleaners ther are out there?
<3> fdiv_bug: often it happens that the worst written games are the most fun
<0> sparr: It does? Why?
<0> (Leaving behind files, that is.)
<1> umm, HD space is cheap. who cares if you've got a 100k dll
<2> dude, clean your registry *if you must* one a month and forget about it
<3> fdiv_bug: because files take up space. when my drive fills up and i need to free up a gig or two, leftovers are the first place i look
<2> you're bringing up items that really have little bearing on performance factors
<1> how big is your HD? 8GB?
<0> sparr: So when you need to free up space go looking -- that's what I do -- but if not then just leave it alone.
<3> nerp: yeah, ive got a TB now. last time i ran XP i had about 20GB, so it mattered more
<0> sparr: Seriously, though. Is going to all this effort worth it?
<3> fdiv_bug: effort? im bored. nothing better to do than look. if i find nothing then i keep gaming in linux and ignore the handful of games i cant run. worst case im back where i started.
<1> next thing you know, yo'll be using a memory flushing program
<0> sparr: I'm not necessarily talking about the search.
<0> I'm talking about how much effort you're going to expend "maintaining" a system unnecessarily.
<0> It just seems... wasteful.
<3> the only reason its become particularly pressing right now is because ive encountered a few new games that i especially want to play
<2> nerp: hehe well i do use the tuneup utilities, but that's more because i want to see what they actually do :)
<0> sparr: So install Windows and play them.
<3> i dont plan to spend any effort. thats the beauty of the sandbox, it takes almost zero effort to maintain, and saves time when it comes to doing the occasional maintenance
<0> sparr: And it takes even less effort for me to just use my Windows machine and play my games.
<2> sparr: i don't start worrying about things until i'm using excessive CPU just idling, and I've about 8MB of ram left free.
<3> sure, until you have to get rid of some spyware, or uninstall something
<3> Deryl: thats a seperate matter, which wouldnt be resolved by a sandbox anyways
<0> sparr: Add/Remove Programs works pretty well for the latter, and I haven't really had a problem with the former except once and it only took me about 10 minutes to resolve.
<2> sparr: it's user knowledge dude. you can easily set your system up and fire and forget
<2> that's pretty much it with windows
<2> it just fuggin works
<0> Deryl: For the most part, yeah.
<3> norton was the AV i used last time i used windows
<3> and it scanned my email
<2> fdiv_bug: the rest I chalk up to what every user should have to do.. **maintain their system**
<3> not such a bad feature, except that it happened while i was gaming
<2> it's called O W N E R SH I P
<0> sparr: Norton does that sometimes. That's a reason I run McAfee.
<4> it's sorta like a car. most people don't want to know how it works or what they need to do to fix it. they just want it to work and get them where they need to go.
<2> macafee is more well-behaved, norton has a better heuristics engine (second only to f-prot's)
<2> use whichever you prefer. or shut some **** down before you play
<2> like email :)
<2> pizza_biz: bingo! give that man a prise!
<2> err prize
<3> and then theres the whole vulnerability/patch issue, which is why i wont run windows as my desktop, but thats unrelated to what im trying to do now
<0> sparr: Every system has vulnerabilities.
<2> sparr: Uhh in the FY05, windows had 82 exploits for it. Linux and friends had over 2,000
<0> Deryl: Those numbers aren't directly comparable.
<3> Deryl: you really want to go there?
<2> statistics verified by just about every statistical clearing house out there
<0> If you're using the CERT stats.
<2> sparr: oh yeah. considering my years of experience in the field with linux, yeah lets go there
<2> any time you want baby
<2> any time
<3> that 2000 includes things like apache, the 82 does NOT include IIS
<0> Apache isn't part of Linux, for instance, yet there were many, many Apache vulnerabilities on that list.
<2> sparr: yes, it does
<0> Deryl: Not the list I saw. URL?
<2> IIS6 is most ***uredly included in the specs
<2> sec, pulling the eweek and secure enterprise articles from print.
<2> brb
<0> Deryl: Those sound like the same ones I saw, and those lists were so flawed that they're statistically useless.
<5> I just bent a transistor... Bad?
<2> flawed how?
<6> stainer: call 9111
<3> windows has a critical "h4xor ur b0xor" vulnerability and they have to make a special decision to patch it in a week instead of a month. linux has the same and the patches are available and automagically downloaded 6 hours later
<0> Deryl: By randomly including or excluding software from both lists, by listing the same vulnerability multiple times, sometimes even for the same component, and by generally being poorly put-together.
<2> uhh sparr, the yearly average for patch turnaround time is 59 days for linux and friends (average across all of FY05)
<3> im speaking of no-user-interaction-required vulnerabilities that can allow someone to take over your machine
<0> sparr: Six hours? What, rebuilding from source?
<3> fdiv_bug: nope. binary replacements.
<0> sparr: From what distro vendor?
<3> kubuntu, in particular.
<0> Hah. Right.
<0> Find me a six-our turnaround errata announcement.
<3> this is only fresh on my mind because it came up on /. :)
<0> s/our/hour/
<3> let me go find the example
<0> I don't trust Slashdot for news any further than I can throw it.
<2> fdiv_bug: I'm still looking up the stats, so give me a bit too
<2> it's Windows patch average turnaround of 25 days, linux and friends 59 days. (across FY05 on both)
<2> sec
<3> yeah, im not talking about /. as a reference, its just where i saw it mentioned
<3> gotta love "linux and friends" :)
<3> just lump every single other OS together, add them up, and compare to windows alone
<2> sparr: Uhh that's linux and derivatives. mening kernel and GNU apps
<2> err meaning
<3> gnu apps have nothing to do with linux, but ill let that slide
<7> i need to get a ring cut off my finger
<7> who does that kinda ****?
<3> digidog: emergency room
<3> digiwork: ^^
<3> http://www.ubuntu-linux.com/usn/usn-245-1
<0> Deryl: Right, but the Windows vulnerabilities didn't include issues with **** like Exchange, as I recall, or Outlook. Did it?
<2> sparr: since they are bundled together in a distribution which is what windows would exctly compare to, then it's not sliding. it's integration
<7> ok is there like somewhere that might be uhh.. less dramatic?
<2> fdiv_bug: looking for the stats. i've about 20 mags to hunt through. gimme a sec
<3> i think that one took about 12 hours
<8> hello guys
<9> probably a jewler might
<3> digiwork: probably not. they basically use a mini version of the jaws of life :)
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