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Comments:
<0> for ALL native systems
<1> im talking about windows binaries running under cedega
<0> don't just pick on windows for that
<1> i dont WANT hardware emulation
<1> the hardware doesnt need to be emulated for the feature im looking for
<0> duwell tough ****, change your parameters
<2> k, i'm losing it here. are we talking emulation or virtualization?
<3> pizza_biz: A little of both.
<1> no emulation
<0> your acceptance of the solution or not matters little from the state of the technology. either join the fray and innovate the solution or don't complain
<1> the only reason emulation came up is because the only system that provides the feature in question happens to also be an emulator
<0> pizza_biz: actually it's a little bit of both
<3> Basically, sparr wants to have his cake and eat it, too, which is impractical if not impossible in this situation.
<0> sparr: and the market is currently moving towards a joining of both disciplines which is where Intel's CPU support is going
<1> there are filesystems (for non-windows OSes) that offer a read-only 'base' system, and a read-write second image. changes are written to the second, and reads come from the first unless the second contains a changed version. its a very cool system, and pretty much exactly what i want in windows, although not the only possible way this feature could be implemented
<3> Deryl: But that doesn't help him *right now* and his OCD is raging pretty badly.
<0> give it another 5 years, what you want will become native in both the software and hardware joining.
<0> sparr: you're asking for the next evolution level but not waiting for the 2 disciplines to join.
<3> sparr: And there are cars whose engines generate over 1000 horsepower. If you only have $30,000 to spend, you're not going to get one.
<1> Deryl: ive already got it, just not in windows
<3> sparr: So you don't have what you want, then.
<3> Because what you want is Cedega for Windows.
<3> Which, to my knowledge, does not exist.
<0> sparr: uhh because ONE artifact works that way you think ALL have to work that way NOW?
<1> what i want is Cedega's installation system. which has pretty much nothing to do with its emulation of windows
<0> emmensely high expectations for a new ideology just now developing in both worlds.
<1> what what?
<3> sparr: Except that it does, because it virtualizes the registry as well as the file system, which are pretty low-level pieces of the OS.
<1> new ideology?
<0> sparr: yes
<0> you want hardware level support for isolation
<1> great terms for something wine(x/cedega) has done for the better part of a decade
<1> i dont want anything related to hardware
<0> that's pretty muchw hat you're asking for. since you're demanding native performance, it requires hardware level support
<1> cedega says otherwise
<3> Deryl: He just wants to not worry about one of his games or warezed apps ****ing up another of his games or warezed apps. Something which I don't seem to lose much sleep over. Wonder how I do it.
<0> yes you do when you're talking about windows. windows uses a much higher abstraction layer. it's EVENT driven coding
<0> fdiv_bug: it's called execute in seperate memory space
<1> i only mention cedega because im talking about windows games. i can do the same sort of sandboxing in linux with linux native apps as well
<0> and enable DPM
<1> NO
<3> Deryl: He also wants it to have its own little private registry, and private file system.
<1> NOT execute in seperate memory space!
<1> i explicitly do NOT want that
<0> sparr: a jail is not an effective sandboxing method the way you're talking
<1> i use programs that need to be able to read/write each others memory space
<0> you're talking a more refined UML but for windows
<3> sparr: Linux can do that sort of sandboxing because of inherent design decisions made in Unix and Unix-like systems. Note: Windows is not a Unix or Unix-like system.
<1> fdiv_bug: yes, but it can emulate windows games
<1> in terms of performance...
<3> And it's usually the people who try to shoehorn it into acting like one who end up ****ing up their Windows boxes.
<0> well i have to correct you there fdiv_bug. it takes it's infrastructure skeleton from unix, but it stops there
<1> worst case, i find a way to compile cedega for windows. i get sandboxing for cedega-friendly games.
<3> Deryl: Only insofar as any modern OS does.
<0> ok, granted
<3> sparr: Good luck with that.
<1> best case, someone has found a way to provide the registry/filesystem sandbox of cedega without all the directx/api overhead
<3> sparr: Have you ever had any productive results asking about this here?
<0> uhh DX doesn't impose a major overhead for today's hardware
<0> sorry to tell you
<0> 4th generation system, yeah
<0> today's gen? hardly
<1> fdiv_bug: i asked here about image filters for windows 9x for over 2 years before i got a productive answer. persistence pays off.
<3> sparr: Not when it annoys people to the point where they tell you to **** off.
<1> Deryl: i mean the overhead for cedega to provide directx stuffs
<0> that's cedega's issue
<3> And, frankly, I have a hard time believing anyone's ever gotten any help from this channel.
<1> fdiv_bug: youve been afk for 6 years of '<XTR> BAN SPARR' ?
<4> "Oprah.com has received your e-mail"
<0> fdiv_bug: I have :)
<3> sparr: No, I'm quite aware you're not particularly well liked in here. /No/ idea why that could be...
<1> Deryl: yes. cedega does sandboxing AND directx/windows api emulation. if i get cedega to compile, i get both. i dont want both, but apparently no one has done one without the other
<3> Maybe because you insist on looking for inadequately thougth-out solutions to problems of your own devising.
<5> I know what you want.
<0> i know people have a mixed sense of *me*, but that's because I'm more than fairly blunt and just speak my mind, regardless. :)
<3> Maybe you just smell bad.
<5> Bitch slut whore.
<5> I'm more philly blunt as well.
<0> mmm, philly
<5> BACK IN SCHOOL WE USED TO DREAM ABOUT THIS EVERY DAY
<0> FLYYYY LIKE AN EEAGLLEE
<1> the spyware problem was one of the first things that prompted me to look for a sandbox system for windows. the most recent is an online poker site that wont let you create two accounts from the same pc
<2> eagles may soar, but weasels don't get ****ed into jet engines.
<0> sparr: Uhh dude, if you manage your systems right, spyware is NOT that big a deal. there are more than enough spyware monitors with automated removal systems that ARE effective than you can shake a stick at.
<0> pizza_biz: WHIRRRRR
<0> hey what's for supper? ROAD KILL!
<0> sparr: and that's on both the enterprise and SMB levels
<1> Deryl: yeah, i got tired of that when i realized that norton + [anti-spyware program of choice] were using 5-10% of my RAM. that was long enough ago that the memory problem is insignificant now, but its what turned me off them in the first place
<0> sparr: ANY program that needs to remain resident with in-memory scanner singitures is going to take up ram
<1> 10% of 128MiB isnt very noticable now that i have 1GiB
<3> sparr: I use McAfee and Microsoft AntiSpyware, and I never notice they're running unless I'm using the computer at 2AM and they pop up doing their nightly scan.
<0> and a decent portion of it
<6> i desire ***istance yet again
<0> tell you what, get the fuggin virus and malware writers to quite writing this ****, and you won't have to dedicate resources to it's containment.
<1> but with a sandbox i wouldnt even need that. i could just delete the spyware if and when it happened
<3> Hieyeck: I desire strippers. Maybe we can help each other out.
<6> excellent
<6> i have plenty of those
<0> sparr: so you move your management level 1 level deeper
<7> umm, i don't get spyware
<3> Someone give Hieyeck ops.
<3> I vote yes.
<6> lol
<0> for a pointless redundancy in system resource use
<3> Times ten.
<7> or viruses
<0> i call that stupid
<6> anyways
<7> i use no prevention software
<7> its a waste of my resources
<7> i don't take any risks.
<7> and my data is secured and backed up
<6> i am having problems with windows, my processor, or my ram
<0> nerp: you're probably an extremely conservative user as well
<3> nerp: The only time I've gotten spyware that MS AntiSpyware couldn't remove was when I did something dumb, so I got what I deserved. Fortunately Windows was there to bail me out.
<3> nerp: I used to not use any anti-virus software.
<3> Then my girlfriend got a laptop.
<6> i'm trying to plug in 2 gigs - but the apps get addressing issues
<7> not really, i just avoid videos, porn, ***, warez, cracks.
<3> :\
<7> i read mail in plain text
<3> nerp: You do? Rock on!
<0> fdiv_bug: hehe i do as well
<3> I've contemplated going back to using mutt.
<7> i don't go to celeb websites
<1> i havent used winxp as my desktop in a few years, so im a bit behind on the latest developments. my last foray into windows was win2k and that ended last year
<7> or use p2p clients
<0> nerp: hehe well i use a few of the things you avoid and i've not had any issues.
<7> sparr - xp is stable enough, you really don't have to give the registry any thought.
<7> there's no reason to be paranoid
<3> nerp: It's the "if you don't walk alone through neighborhoods where muggings take place you're not very likely to get mugged" method of logic.
<0> it IS a matter of knowledge of correct use and application of it as practice
<3> Hieyeck: Please don't /msg me. Ask in the channel where everyone can see and comment, especially considering that I'm not very helpful.
<6> :(
<7> also a matter of using a computer for the applications you have installed, not as an internet entertainment device. :D
<6> fine, one very long damn scentence
<2> he's really not.
<0> fdiv_bug: one reason i'm contemplating running whitelist in irssi
<7> I'm a hard core computer user, but web browsing is simply for research and reference for me
<1> sometimes using xp/2k i miss win9x games that dont work any more, linux brought those back to me
<0> manage all the fuggin msgs i get
<7> and a bit of news reading
<2> CS:S is "hard core"? :-P
<0> hehe it is fairly system intensive :)
<7> well, that's just one of many apps I use. :D
<7> I've always got like, 4-5 concurrent stories with ***ociated notes/browser tabs going.. that adds up
<7> plus I manage our site, so I'm doing image conversions in photoshop, dealing with 25mb tiffs, etc.
<0> the majority of my resources are used by visual studio and a in-memory RSS aggregator. occasionally you can add a game or two to that as well as Outlook
<7> plus outlook
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