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Comments:
<0> Now, get which ever one you prefer to use and which integrates better with what you're using in the rest of the studio.
<1> johnglenn: excuse me?
<2> johnhlenn the last time I needed to run a 16 bit program was umm, 10 years ago.
<1> johnglenn: I think you mean 64-bit OSes
<1> not Vista
<3> put the program playing the video at a higher cpu priority
<2> so i could care less about some aincent DOS program
<1> 32-bit Vista should run any 16-bit Windows app
<1> Windows prides itself on backwards compat. I don't see them giving that up for 32-bit Vista
<3> mmm...lunch, later all
<1> WordPerfect 5.1 should run just fine in Vista
<0> Jet: Despite the fact that I think they should give it up, because it's been a constant source of pain for them.
<1> fdiv_bug: it has also meant that companies continue to upgrade to their new OSes
<1> guaranteeing sales
<0> Instead of letting dead products die.
<0> If you have some **** old product that needs the 16-bit subsystem in Windows, you need to find another piece of software.
<1> a company with 10,000 desktops doesn't want to throw away an investment in some line of business app, no matter how crappy it is
<0> Apple knows how to make platform transitions, and they've done a splendid job twice now, and are working on making their third one exceptionally smooth.
<1> If Microsoft says: "your primary line of business app won't run in the next release of Windows"
<1> do you think company A would upgrade?
<1> fdiv_bug: that's because people who buy Apple computers seem to enjoy spending money
<0> Jet: Of course they wouldn't. At which point they should go find a replacement application, one which is actively supported and maintained.
<0> Jet: That's bull****.
<1> fdiv_bug: a company isn't going to spend potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars so they can upgrade their OS
<1> they'll keep what they have
<0> Jet: Maybe they should.
<1> because that's how business works
<0> That's like continuing to hold on to a fleet of cars (in the US) that can only run on leaded fuel.
<1> so the stockholders can get less return?
<1> and their stock price can not go as high?
<0> Progress is a bitch, Jet, and it costs companies money.
<0> But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
<4> I just got into this argument with my boss.
<4> I need you guys to help figure this out.
<1> fdiv_bug: what if that line of business app can't be replaced? what if it does something very specific, and the source code and company that wrote it is long gone?
<4> The guy in charge of "buildings and grounds" is doing his part to save money lately.
<1> Microsoft has indicated that they have customers like that
<1> very large customers
<4> He's been sending m*** emails telling people what to do about power saving. one of them was about turning off lights when you leave rooms, and oh yeah, make sure your computers and monitors are OFF at end of day
<1> if Application XYZ doesn't run in your next OS, we're not upgrading
<1> because we need XYZ
<1> and we can't replace it
<4> i told my boss to straighten him out and tell him to email everybody again and say "machines need to stay on for updates to OS and AV"
<0> Jet: Then they continue to use the software they've got, running on the OSes they've got. If there's a large enough market for that application then another company will come into the game. If there isn't, maybe the company who's having to limp along should look into investing in creating an in-house replacement.
<4> but he never did.
<4> my boss is a *****, he's afraid to confront
<4> but he tells me I dont understand how it works.
<0> skoalwork: That ****s.
<4> what the **** ?
<4> He says "you think its that easy"
<4> I'm like yeah. it is whenever *I* go in there yelling.
<0> skoalwork: Can't you set it so that when the machines are powered on, they get their updates then?
<4> yeah but it takes too ****ing long.
<0> Oh. Fair enough.
<4> these are high schools
<4> the truth of the matter is that nobody really listens to the guy that sent the email
<4> but some people do.
<0> :\
<4> enough to aggravate me when I can't get **** working.
<0> So you'll have some machines that aren't updating.
<4> I just can't believe what a ***** my boss is.
<0> Which is far worse than no machines updating, from a management standpoint.
<4> His wife is about to deliver so he's really really scared of losing his job.
<4> He's got no ****ing backbone.
<0> Heh.
<4> He won't rock the boat on ANYTHING.
<4> The Symantec AntiVirus service terminated unexpectedly.
<4> Unreal.
<0> TERMINATED!
<4> I can't get ANYTHING to work right today
<0> With extreme prejudice?
<1> fdiv_bug: I find this incredibly humorous... people bitch about Microsoft enforcing their will because some tweaker can't change some registry key to change some minor behaviour in windows
<5> Tell him it isn't about easy or hard, it is about getting the job done and if he is not capable of doing the job, he shouldn't have knocked his wife up.
<1> but you're suggesting its okay for Apple to tell companies to throw away potentially millions in software
<1> and that's okay
<0> SD70MAC: You're ***uming that it was *he* who knocked his wife up in the first place.
<1> it's okay for Apple to be so arrogant as to say "WE know what's best for you"
<1> "you MUST upgrade your applications to work with our latest OS"
<1> "if you do not upgrade YOU are a loser"
<0> Jet: I like how you're putting words in my mouth. That's very clever and speaks highly of your comprehension of my position.
<1> fdiv_bug: that's what you're saying
<5> fdiv: I would put it that way to not harm his ego any further than absolutely necessary.
<1> Apple has made a platform transition
<1> and is making another one
<0> What Apple has said, on two occasions past and one currently, is either upgrade or be left behind.
<0> To software developers, that is.
<1> companies that want to upgrade their Apple computers on a 3 year cycle are now stuck upgrading all their apps too
<0> Not if it runs well enough in Rosetta.
<0> And six or nine years from now, you should upgrade your apps anyway.
<0> If there is no application upgrade available, then you should find another route.
<0> Successful, viable businesses adapt to changes in their environment, changes to the computing environment included.
<1> its arrogant for software vendors to force those changes
<0> Meanwhile, if Apple were taking Microsoft's stance they'd continue to emulate 680x0 in Mac OS X for Intel.
<0> Which is ****ing balls ridiculous.
<1> as well they should
<0> Why!?
<1> to support their customers that require applications that they might require to run their businesses
<0> It would make this hardware platform transition far, far more difficult, and would really offer no benefits except to customers which are the market equivalent of boat anchors.
<0> No one uses those applications any more, anyway. Why? Because Apple *migrated away from* the 680x0 platform a decade ago.
<0> They left stopgap measures in place for a time, and now those are gone.
<0> As are the applications that required them.
<0> Microsoft has never migrated away from Win16 or DOS.
<0> It continues to drag them down, like Jacob Marley's chains.
<0> If that's what you call "progress" then we've got wildly different ideas about the term.
<1> you've defined "progress" as one company enforcing its will on all others
<1> I choose not to agree with that
<0> That's progress for *Apple's* operating system, yes.
<0> They can say, "Here's where we're going with our platform."
<1> So Apple decides what is best for everyone
<1> arrogance
<0> !??!
<6> hahaha have you guys seen this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7392301325
<0> How is Microsoft's stance of continuing to support ancient **** any less than their deciding what's best?
<0> Jet: You're using *way* too inclusive of words here, man.
<0> Apple is deciding what's best for Apple's operating systems running on Apple's hardware.
<0> Microsoft is doing the same, to the extent they can with the PC platform.
<1> fdiv_bug: because Microsoft isn't forcing a company that has a 10 year old app, with no source code, and the company that wrote it long gone to upgrade to something less efficient, or re-write something which would cost millions
<0> Apple is not deciding "what is best for everyone."
<1> Microsoft has REAL customers
<0> You know what?
<1> that have REAL apps like I just described
<0> I'm done with this conversation.
<0> Your bigotry is just too great an obstacle to overcome.
<1> Bigotry?
<1> I'm describing a company that actually gives a **** about what their customers want
<1> vs one taht seems to produce a product and tell customers "use it or not, we don't care"
<0> If Apple didn't give a **** about what their customers wanted then they wouldn't still be in business.
<1> I mean, Sybase is the same way, as is AutoCad
<0> But, I'm not talking to you about this any longer. I'm sick of your anti-Apple attitude putting ****-tinted goggles over your eyes every time a conversation involving the company comes up.
<0> Have a glorious day.
<5> I'm going to watch the President's day parade in Alexandria, VA.
<5> Nyah.
<0> In person?
<5> Nah. I'll send a bot down and watch through VR goggles.
<7> meh
<7> got bored?
<5> Got a bottled of it right here in case I run out of stuff to do.
<5> -d
<7> heh
<7> running windows update on 15 cient laptops at the same time :p
<7> and no they don't have wsus
<5> Went to heat one and clicked on Windowsupdate?
<5> s/heat/each
<5> Man I love broadband.
<0> Bredbandbolaget?
<2> You know, I can't remember what it was like to use dialup.
<0> Me either.
<2> although I do recall being very psyched when I finally had a dedicated line for internet.
<0> nerp: I never got to that point.
<2> I actually once got a call from my po-dunk dialup ISP at the time that complained I was connected 24/7
<5> It is more than just how many encyclopedias I can transfer. It is the kinds of things I have access to, like maps and bird's eye views and other sorts of things that can help me plan my day. I just looked at a bird's eye view of the spot I plan to be on the parade route so the sun will be at my back and the parade coming at me.
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