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Comments:
<0> okay so
<0> that. should.work
<1> for business, no one uses pgsql either.
<2> postgres is 10X better, has been better since before mysql even started.
<1> everyone uses oracale or mysql.
<0> and then even.
<0> Argh this makes me angry
<1> s,or mysql,,
<0> i'm almost tempted to grant this user ALL PRIVILEGES and WITH GRANT OPTION
<0> just to take care of this bull****
<0> i have better things to do than sit here and update privilieges and chekc my app
<2> mysql has better PR because there's a commercial business behind it. the free version is only free for noncommercial use if you read the fine print.
<0> i should install mysqlcc
<0> MySQL AB
<3> christ
<1> peerce, you can spin it anyway you'd like.
<1> mysql drives most of the internet.
<0> #mysql will eat me alive
<1> orcale drives the enterprise.
<2> its true. postgres was a relational database LONG before mysql was a wet spot.
<1> pgsql is a left handed mention.
<1> for ****'s sake.
<1> i hate that. "Mysql ****s"
<1> of course it does.
<0> heh
<1> yet everyone uses it.
<1> move ON
<0> peerce does sit on a high horse
<2> yeah, and 'everyone' programs in Visual Basic.
<0> csm: you ca;lled?
<2> does that mean its 'good' ?
<1> yes they do.
<1> no.
<1> it's fast.
<1> it's easy.
<4> how do i login to my cable modem
<1> it's effective for 98% of the applcations out there.
<0> Carlo: you don't.
<1> is it pretty?
<1> no.
<2> its not fast, VBasic is slow as **** at any kind of real computational work
<1> does it work.
<1> yes.
<2> but, yeah, its EASY.
<1> anyone who does computational work does not use vb for the computation.
<2> until you try and do something complex, then it bites you in your ***
<1> they use c .dll's
<1> duh
<0> i think
<1> we have entire trading systems in VB
<0> i need to give 'CREATE' permission
<1> and amazingly we do just fine!
<1> OMG LOL ROFFLE
<1> #38 in the fortune 100
<1> GO FIGURE!
<1> (for what it's worth)
<1> i had the same argument with the application developing manager
<2> its damn hard to enforce good software engineering practices on Vbasic programs and programmers.
<2> yes, it CAN be done.
<1> doesn't mean it shou.d
<1> BUT IT OFTEN IS.
<1> time to market is critical for some industries. being able to push out changes and enhancements fast can be critical. you trade off certain things for other things.
<1> it's doesn't need ISO 9001 certification.
<1> it needs to work.
<1> people lose sight of that.
<1> yes we can do it the "right way" in 18 months.
<2> yes, and after so many generations of fast enhancements, a vb program tends to become very unmanagable
<1> or we can do it now, in 6.
<1> this program has gone from 10 users on a local lan to thousands across a lan.
<1> it's "managed" well enough.
<1> not that it hasn't had it's issues!
<1> like non-firehose queries!
<1> s,across a lan,across a wan,
<1> my bad!
<2> I face this daily, our asian counterparts LOVE VB for factory floor applications, and they create these nasty spagetti systems of dozens of whack programs with incomplete documetentation that pick data out of differetn databases, do wierd*** **** with no control over the business rules, and poke data into other databases
<2> I just found a subsystem they rely on, 'cleanroom exit', that has 100s of part numbers with data attribute rules hard coded in VB
<1> if you sit at a level ot stop that
<1> why don't you?
<1> we all know it's wrong.
<1> big business does **** 'wrong' on a scale we can't even fathom, every day.
<2> the trouble is, the operations folks on the cleanroom floor, THEY understand it, noone else does.
<1> as long as you tell management the risks.
<1> you've doneyour job.
<1> if it's even your job to tell management about said risks.
<2> another group in the states, completely differnet management chain, is designing a whole new cleanroom system, its almost ready for delivery, 'CRX' (clean room exit) wasn't on the road map as it wasn't documenteed, operations just popped up with it.
<5> Ya know ... if there is a heaven and judgement at the gates and all that ... I *really* want to be there watching when Fred Phelps arrives and tries to get in.
<2> and said "WE NEED THIS"
<2> I found this today.
<2> ok, it popped up yesterday, but the full implications sunk in today.
<2> the new system has cleanroom stations coded in C# talking .NET to custom COM objects we (my group) developed, which talk to a new linux line support server we developed, the line support server in turn talks to the factory main database servers. CRX wasn't on the road map at all.
<2> the CRX system the operations folks had developed in house, hodgepodge over the last 5+ years, it talks to about 5 different databases, byp***ing all APIs and business logic.
<1> nice to tie yourself to a proprietary system in C# and .NET
<2> it goes into inventory databases with dblinks, and rips out ****, updates it, and pokes it into other databases.
<2> we (my group) didn't pick C# or .net
<2> we're java and platform neutral.
<1> arguments can be made across all sorts decisions
<2> the C#/.Net came out of process engineering in colorado
<1> i know a slew of people who swear java ****s so much *** they'd prefer FORTH
<2> they work for an entire differnent management chain
<1> *shrug
<1> yet others will pit java next to ***embler.
<1> opinions are like ***holes.
<1> everyone has one.
<1> all that matters ithe job is done at the endof the day.
<2> java's computational performance is so-so... but its been VERY stable for the sorts of networking and database stuff we use it for
<1> and mysql has been extremely stable for everything i use it for.
<2> anyways, this C#->commonhost->maindatabase architecture has no room whatsoever for operations little homebrew VBasic program that reads and writes databases behind everyon's back
<2> [oracle databases, btw]
<1> ya i figured as much.
<1> nice to have budget.
<2> oh, commonhost uses postgres for its local database
<1> oracle is not a cheap bitch to run.
<1> and solaris might be free, patches aren't!
<2> its running on multiple E10000 suns, which are EOL... we're looking at either new sun iron, or IBM pSeries/AIX
<2> probably p570
<1> sun is dead.
<2> 8-16 way, 1.9Ghz Power5+
<1> ibm is the way to go.
<2> actually, the new sun stuff is kind of interesting
<2> the T1000/T2000
<2> AIX is so oldschool, phew.
<2> but it does seem to work nicely.
<1> then sun needs to dump solaris, embrace linux, and be done.
<1> hello SMIT!
<6> hehe
<6> aix 3.2
<2> yeah, smitty, phew.
<6> smitty
<2> AIX 5.3L, actually.
<6> yar
<6> no
<6> I have aix 3.2
<2> solaris scales much MUCH better than linux.
<6> could have had 4.0 but...
<2> linux still has too many kernel deadlocks and stuff
<6> lost the tape for it
<6> <--- has IBM rs600 :)
<2> AIX scales great too
<1> an sunos was a beat. it didn't become useable until it was branded solaris.
<2> I doubt 5.x would run on a rs600
<7> my webserver was much more stable on linux. since i've gone to fbsd, i'm getting weird **** every day
<1> linux, properly implemented on a commercial basis, will mature nicely.
<6> peerce, yeah heh
<7> i know i need to tune tune tune
<6> equivilent to 75mhz haha
<6> but the thing is HUGE
<7> so hopefulluy after a year, i'll have the right combo
<1> chamois, freebsd works fine.
<7> yea i just need to tune more
<2> Unify; its got a long ways to go. you use fiberchannel SAN with it? ugh, not nice when your /dev/sdX all renumber on you after juggling LUNs.
<1> peerce, ever compserf?
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