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Comments:
<0> i had to do it for my ego.. u know, add her to the count
<0> shes pretty busted actually
<0> naked that is
<1> children that take that way rarely do what they are discussing.
<1> /take/talk/
<0> i have a relentless trugle to prove something to me
<0> *stuggle
<1> Definitely isn't to prove you have honor.
<0> its a selfish struggle to for self asteem
<0> i recognize the problem
<2> you know, is there still no real competition for Exchange? kinda sad.. I'm about to eval Suns Java Enterprise Suite and it seems like one of the only choices I've found, nothing from RedHat or Apple compares.
<1> Mr_You, a few months ago someone stated the only real way to dislodge Microsoft was to provide a complete Exchange replacement that is better than Exchange.
<2> Sun has an Exchange Connector.
<2> I mean an Outlook Connector.
<3> exchange only rules because of OWA
<3> and that's only because OWA is outlook
<2> it comes down to providing as seamless as possible Outlook support.
<3> anyways, keep an eye on novel, mr you.
<2> novel?
<3> hopefully, they'll make something real out of suse's OpenExchange Server
<2> Novel oh
<2> novell
<3> right, sorry.
<1> To replace exchange you have to not only replace the email, but easy to use calendaring with invite function, easy to share address book and integrated IM.
<4> mostly email/canendaring though
<5> yeah the IM integration really doesn't add much
<5> also windows messenger is the worst IM app ever developed
<1> cstone, Integrated IM if done right would add a lot.
<5> i guess maybe
<1> But it has to be complete integrated so you can bring up and share calendars, emails messages, etc without having to fight or cut and paste.
<5> that seems like a lot of clunky technology
<1> Not like the new Lotus Notes client that just bolted their Sametime client onto the fscking mail client.
<6> I'd like IM that does P2P instead of through the master server, as well as supporting SSL.
<6> Then I'd like calendaring builtin
<1> Yashee, if you are building into an Exchange/Outlook setup you just use the central mail server.
<6> I heard Michael Jackson will soon be admining one of the US ports
<2> how would an IM integrate with calendaring, email, etc?
<2> Suns stuff provides (apparently) full integration with Outlook (calendar, ldap, etc.) and provides a webmail+calendar interface.
<2> and an Instant Messaging solution I think its Jabber compatible.
<2> they also provide a nice java chat client.
<1> mr_you, The Lotus Notes integrated Sametime is kinda cool. When you reveive an email you can see a green dot next to the name if the person has the integrated sametime client on. So you can click on it and chat right from the message.
<1> That is a simple form of integration.
<2> I used Sametime at a big bank and it ****ed big time.
<1> It would be nice if a more complex form would bring you into a whiteboard type configuration with the email so you can ask directed questions about the email without retyping in or cutting and pasting.
<2> Given there is a better free client out there but they didn't let us use it.
<1> Sametime works no worse than any other IM client. <shrug>
<2> We ended up setting up our own IRC server cause their sametime server wasn't reliable.
<2> not my experience.
<1> And how old is this experience?
<2> last year.
<2> our client had some other annoying features too.
<2> was too basic.
<1> <shrug> Sametime as I stated is integrated into Lotus Notes.
<2> blotus notes ****ed too.
<2> its way overkill for where I am now.
<2> and people like Outlook anyways.
<1> I find anything more than pine to be overkill for me personally.
<1> And the whole "Top Reply" concept to me is stupid, but everyone at work can't handle the inline comments (called "Internet Style Reply")
<2> I use Thunderbird, but I could probably use Outlook just as well. I don't really care in the end, I just don't like server solutions that lock out or lock in clients/subscription, etc.
<1> mr_you, problem is it isn't what we want. It is what the CEO and majority of the population wants.
<1> They want Exchange or an all integrated Exchange style solution.
<7> You know what i hate about e-mail? People treat it like a way to deliver files.. So now you have a user creating a 100meg ppt and sending it to someone else on your network. now the dang thing is stored twice once in the sent and once in the other users inbox. Now the recipeitn modifes the ppt and saves it to server and send it back to the orginal perosn. Now the stupid file is stored 4 times in the email storage and once on the server
<7> because users dont like to delete e-mail
<7> =)
<1> Dan, we have people with archives for almost 10+ years of emails.
<7> it is exchanges fault =]
<1> We never had Exchange.
<7> heh
<7> ok guess i should say imap then
<1> We went from Lotus cc:Mail to Lotus Notes
<1> All still being a central database setup.
<1> cc:Mail ****ed.. Notes is just bloated because its an embedded java environment.
<7> is it really?
<7> never had the pleasure of dealing with notes
<1> I have 4 java VM installed at work.
<7> heh
<7> all windows execpt our aix machine which is the brains of our org and now we are going to move it to Redhat Ent
<7> we use a DB called Progress
<7> ever heard of it?
<1> Progress and Progressql shared a history.
<1> postgresql I mean
<2> I don't see integrated IMing with Email a big neccessity.
<2> one "cool" thing with Suns IMing is you can archive conversations hehe
<1> mr_you, no but integrated calendaring is.
<2> with the IMing clent?
<1> no with mail
<7> calendering is nice
<7> if people know how to use it.
<2> yeah, well thats pretty much required and in the end it comes down to getting an Outlook compatible solution or proprietary solution.
<7> i love my exchanege box
<2> all of Suns offerings cover pretty much everything.. you can authenticate against so many protocols. impressive. but built with java bloat.
<6> ical is nice, but only works on mac
<3> Mouring: yikes. notes :(
<2> I'm kinda scared of GroupWise for some reason.
<2> I have no experience with it except early versions where people were trying to get it to work with the internet hehe
<2> I might have to eval it though.
<6> not worth it, at least the last time I tried it
<6> sadly exchange is the only real groupwise calendaring solution out there
<3> why not go exchange, you?
<2> its not friendly to non-MS desktops ;-)
<2> and the nightmares of past upgrades, etc.
<2> viruses, etc.
<2> but ActiveDirectory is still an option, so.... uggh
<3> sure
<3> ad talks to oldap rather painlessly
<3> .. relatively
<3> i know this place that went from notes to exchange
<2> Windows 2003 R2 (and I keep telling myself this) should actually be decent with some Services For Unix integration built in. I did check out ActiveDirectory+SFU and it provides NIS authentication and Unix integration, but would require all unix servers to authenticate via Winbind.
<3> and about 80 of the 300-350 computers are running some UNIX
<3> er .. variant of UNIX
<3> works fine
<3> hundreds of clients exist for unix boxes.
<3> sendmail talks to exchange without any problems
<1> kneer, I would be scared to see an Exchange configuration of over 500 locations.
<3> i'm not one to praise microsoft, but exchange really has alot of things going for it
<2> what clients for Linux or Mac provides full integration?
<1> that is around 300 servers including backups.
<3> well, mac is obvious
<3> Entourage
<3> .. made by microsoft @_@
<3> and gnome and kde both have fairly robust solutions to compete and work with outlook
<2> they offer IMing?
<3> that's what gaim and crap is for
<2> and Webmail?
<2> I'm talking server.
<3> webmail is serverside
<3> oh, yeah, that's what OWA does
<3> outlook web access
<2> I want Email and Chat on the same box.
<3> and sure, IMing is a server in and of itself
<2> calendar.
<2> ok
<3> yeah, that's all exchange, d00d.
<2> right, except chat.
<3> you can integrate microsoft's messaging solution with exchange
<2> I'd have to install a Windows chat server.
<3> rather painlessly.
<3> it would be wrong of me to say that exchange is the -only- solution
<3> there are plenty of robust solutions on the unix side (qmail or sendmail based) that can give you similar functionalities
<8> some folks have put unix mta's in front of exchange.
<6> How do I intergrate calendar with qmail or sendmail?
<8> some companies decide they *really* need the stupid calendar
<3> unix solutions will obviously approach systems like this in a modular way, whereas microsoft will attempt to bundle everything together and lock it down
<6> calendar is a life saver in large organizations
<3> it really is :I
<9> there are lots of webdav calender products that work fine
<6> "lots"
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