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Comments:
<0> MDA = Muscular Dystrophy ***ociation
<0> no real per RFC defintition of such
<1> LDA is the term that is generally used
<0> spf is a whitelisting technology at best
<0> which i use a such...
<1> if you're referring to something like procmail
<0> so is domain keys
<1> aol are hell-bent on making people pay to deliver email to their users
<0> roycroft: reming me later to send you some screenshots of my system
<1> ok
<2> spammers should be punishable by death from firing squad
<0> i've tested it with a few clients, and they are quite happy, so im happy :)
<1> spam should just be eliminated but nobody has the will to do so
<0> omnix: why? they are making income possibilities for me :P
<3> :se noai
<3> a/^Received: from .*\[192\.168\.1\..*\]/ IGNORE:se ai
<3> damn that :se noai
<0> its an interesting fight
<3> how do i get rid of that?
<3> everytime i paste something in screen
<3> but only with this particular screen
<0> a lot of people are for it, and lot against
<1> the backbones have no interest in eliminating spam
<1> it sells bandwidth
<3> gentoo on sparc64
<3> anyone?
<1> many, many t1s are sold that fill up with spam
<3> yeah
<0> roycroft: exactly, many spammers pay the big $$$ for their BW
<0> and i know people who work the support lines at some of those major backbones
<1> more importantly, many isps pay big $$$ for enough bandwidth to receive all their users' spam and dump it once it arrives
<0> yup
<1> if the spammers want to spend their money sending it more power to them
<1> as long as the recipients don't have to pay to get it
<1> and if their isp is spending big $$ on bandwidth just to get the spam they are certainly p***ing that cost on to their customers
<1> a lot of spammers still use hijacked/throw-away accounts
<1> and very few spammers make money from their spam
<1> it's the metaspammers who make the money
<0> its funny how my ISP keeps on advertising all this email spam/virus protection, while my local system keeps catching both
<1> the ones who sell the cds with the "50 million guaranteed email addresses" and al lthe internet marketing seminars
<0> sure, the game is volume for them
<0> but it has not changed anything... we keep or recieving it...
<1> we don't get much anymore :)
<0> well yes, i mean regardless of the stop measures...
<1> the service provider version of postini is way less expensive than the enterprise version
<1> i think we pay about 35 cents/warm body/month for service provider customers
<1> very easy to build into the cost of service
<1> we give postini away for free for the primary account
<0> my product aim to charge $30 per owner, no matter how many users...
<1> and we charge $1/month for each additional user on the account - almost everyone gets it though
<0> i mean, $30/month per owner.
<1> what kind of support/upgrades do they get with that $30?
<1> oh
<0> they get updates with that
<1> yes, if it's a montly fee i should think so
<1> monthly
<0> yes
<0> as we all know, fighting spam demands constant change and updates
<1> yup
<1> so you're going to need about 2500 customers to make this thing work
<0> i've been working with email systems since the early 90's, and it's brought me to this project...
<0> well, per year i would need to sell about 200 and i would be happy
<0> which is a low number
<1> i don't see how you can do it with that small a customer base
<0> why not?
<0> im the only human involved
<1> $6k/month?
<1> how can you possibly make that work?
<1> it's going to take more than one person to maintain the filters, and then you need 4 ftes for tech support
<0> 200*30*12=72k
<0> thats justy monthly fee
<0> plus the markup on the system
<1> not to mention marketing, accounting, and administrative overhead
<0> its a "turn-key" solution
<1> good luck
<0> hardware + software
<0> thanks :)
<1> another bsdi mail appliance
<0> it's actualually going good so far
<1> you're going to push the filters out to the customer machines i take it
<0> what do you mean?
<1> you're selling them a box that does the filtering, right?
<0> yes
<1> you're going to have to maintain that box
<1> which means daily updates of your ~200 machines
<0> gateway between their internet and their server
<0> updates yes, but not daily
<1> five minutes/machine would be 12 machines/hour - you'll need a dedicated circuit to do the updates
<0> each machine updates itself for tasks that neeed frequent updating, such as virus signatures
<0> the rest is handles by my server, which is randomized by rrd
<1> virus signatures usually get updated several times/day with the major spam filter providers
<1> at least, everyone checks in several times/day
<0> yes, and they get updated 3 times a day
<1> postini update theirs every five minutes
<0> ouuu!
<1> just consider the network resources you're going to need to maintain all this
<1> probably the least expensive way to do it is to have rent machines at a colo for your update servers
<0> here is an accurate number:
<0> # Number of database checks per day.
<0> # Default: 12 (every two hours)
<0> its quite enough
<0> network resources? not much, in any case well worth the income...
<0> yes, obviously my servers will be hosted at major providers
<0> and im lucky to have these near me, which is toronto, canada.
<1> you should use one in texas and one in toronto
<1> and if you start selling in the eu put one there as well
<0> perhaps, im not quite at that stage yet
<0> still in the beta stage
<1> well once you go live you can't ever go down
<1> so keep that in mind
<0> i have some clients that know me testing it now...
<0> oncei feel that it's complete i can worry about that :)
<1> i'm not trying to discourage you btw
<0> i do have a secured and reliable freebsd server however that i can host on
<1> i'm just being very realistic
<0> good
<0> i appreciate honest input
<1> and realistically that 200 customer number is going to keep you in kraft dinner at best
<0> it would not, really... but anyways...
<1> well even if you're talking US dollars $72k gross recurring revenue is pretty slim
<0> i wish i could give you a login to one of them so you could have a look around, but i just cant :(
<1> unless your margin on the hardware is going to be outrageous
<0> about $200-$300 on HW
<1> i wouldn't expect you to, especially without a signed nda
<0> but things keep on chaning, like the introduction on Intels Conroe
<0> _I_ dont need an NDA, but the content is sensitive to the user
<1> silly users :)
<0> yep...
<1> we have some companies like that
<1> they're so concerned about postini reading all their emails
<1> as they're highly-sensitive
<1> postini don't store anything
<1> even when they spool they do it in core
<1> i always tell the customers with the sensitive stuff what i told you earlier
<1> sending email is like writing an electronic post card
<1> if you don't want someone reading it you need to obfuscate it somehow
<1> most people would rather just pretend that it's secure by making noises where they see the noise might have an effect
<0> yes, most people want to belive that what they normally send is secure
<0> it's just easier...
<0> you know, humans are like water, take the path of least resistance...
<4> so here's something i find funny
<4> why are all the news wires pointing out that not even the entire bush cabinet knew about his trip to iraq?
<4> doesn't the whitehouse and secret service trust the cabinet?
<1> i don't know, because that's all i have heard about on the news today
<1> so i guess npr are the only ones talking aboutit
<0> politics?
<0> cmon...
<0> im sick of that ****,
<1> oh, i misparsed
<1> i thought you said "why aren't"
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