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Comments:
<0> i haven't looked yet
<0> i wasn't concerned about it
<1> glad you mentioned it, then :)
<1> i need new socks
<0> just noting aloud that i need to install something like that as i was tiring of clicking on the gui client
<0> i have been getting these really groovy ones
<2> well then, its in /usr/ports/audio/flac :)
<0> they're made of organic cotton
<0> and they have really cool colours, plus some wild tie-dye ones
<0> no /usr/ports on os x
<0> but i'm not worried - i'm sure i'll find it
<0> thanks for the pointer though
<2> did you fix your fbsd box yet?
<0> no
<0> i did a work-around though
<0> i wrote some scripts to batch user adds
<0> i'll work on the problem more tomorrow when i'm at work
<2> man, i have no idea what wrong with that, but i can guarantee you that quota works on fbsd 5.x and 6.x...did the colo guys install it?
<0> they installed 6.0 but i did the upgrade
<3> hey guys
<0> i have no problems with quotas on 5.x
<3> could you help me answer some very simple things about unix? I know it's n00bish but I'd appreciate the help
<2> maybe they some way/how installe dit wrong? i dont know, but as i pasted the link, i tested it and it works....
<0> not if you don't ask the questions, ait
<3> things like, "how do you create a soft/symbolic link? how do you create a hard link? how do you find out when a file/inode is linked to more than once?"
<0> oh
<3> i have a list of several of these
<0> no, we don't do homework here
<3> that I need to learn
<2> hekc, if you dont belive me, ill give you a root login to this test box
<0> www.bsd.org will give you some answers
<0> simple command line stuff
<3> well it's not homework heh, I'd rather not waste horus lookking it up
<0> man apges also help
<3> i'm a programmer for windows i understand thigns fast
<0> but you're fine with wasting our time?
<3> :)
<1> man ln, man ls
<0> i believe you, wettoast
<0> what dhartmei said
<3> ok dhartmei i'll take a look
<3> is manonline?
<3> i mean are man pages also online?
<1> yes, google
<0> if youp pick things up fast you can read a man page and understand it
<2> roycroft: good, i wouldnt lie, i have no interest in doing so.
<0> i disagree with you on many things but i've no reason to believe you're a liar, wettoast
<3> roy: yes i can if the man page says what i need
<0> i think you're overzealous, jump to conclusions too quickly, and often times don't look at the big picture
<2> well, thats a good step forward...
<0> none of those traits are indictments of integrity
<2> hed, you're a good guy roy, just we have different mindsets..
<0> anyway, what i'm going to do for now is batch useradds, as i said
<0> i'll run the job in the middle of the night - it will stop sendmail, stop pop3 and imapd, turn quotas off, add the users, set their quotas, run quotacheck, and then turn everything back on
<0> it's less than ideal but it will work and buy time in case this turns out to be a significant problem
<2> i would really recommend sending an email to the fbsd-stable mailing list with the problem
<0> i shall, once i dig into it a bit more
<0> it seems that something on that machine is causing a weird off-by-one error with quotas
<2> but i tihink something down the line was not setup right, since i have a few 5.x systems using quotas just fine, and the one i just tested recently...
<2> of course, it could be a HW problem...
<0> possibly, but i don't think that's likely
<0> especially since the colo are a big freebsd shop and have hundreds of these same machines running freebsd
<2> tested HW?
<2> i see...
<0> i also suspect they did a credible job with the install for that same reason
<0> but i'm not making any ***umptions
<0> everything is suspect at this point
<2> well, that all just makes it a very weird problem...
<0> indeed
<2> i mean, no one has complained of such a problem on the mailing lists....
<0> and when i went to 6.1 the behaviour changed from one form of brokenness to another
<0> the current one being more tolerable fortunately
<2> so, somethng is out of the ordinary
<2> reallly?
<0> yes
<0> the quotas are correct now
<0> which is good
<0> that is to say, once a user gets in the quota database
<2> well, i can tell you for a fact that quotas + snapshots have a deadlock problem on 6.x, but thats very unlikely to affect you
<2> its a problem i've been very verbal about, and it seems to be fixed in -CURRENT
<0> i'm not going to ever run -current on a production machine
<2> vbbut other than that, no one has complained about quotas
<2> no, i dont recommend that
<2> i run it at home only
<0> on a crash machine i have no worries about it
<2> and actually, i've never had major problems, but i treat it as a preview of whats to come...
<0> i spent many years doing beta testing
<2> and?
<2> as far as fbsd goes, i stared out with 2.x, and linu at that stage was much much worse (in terms of stability and functionality), so we went with fbsd...
<2> now, still using it, i feel obligated to contribute to the cause
<2> err, linu == linux.
<0> just that i'm well-aquainted with release cycles and appropriate use of software at various stages of release
<2> ok, but one has to accept the nature of open source software
<2> its never perfect...
<0> very little software is perfect
<2> yes, no softwar is prefect, but a commercial contribution can have many positve effects
<0> and i'm sorry, i know this will bother you, but i see the freebsd project mucking with things for the sake of mucking with them far too much these days
<0> my perception was validated by some friends with whom i was discussing this over dinner tonight
<2> can you be more detailed?
<0> well this quota system for example -- it has been rock solid on bsd for decades but then the freebsd folks did stuff that broke it
<0> there's been a lot of tweaking of the filesystem code - that may have something to do with it
<2> the majority of changes between fbsd 4 and 6 were SMP based, and i think they took the right path, as multi core processors are becoming the norm now
<0> it's unfortunately they bet the bank on the smp code from bsdi
<0> unfortunate
<0> they've spent way too much time cleaning that up
<2> the filesystem has never been more stressed as on the 6.x releases, it is solid...
<0> they were expecting it to be in a lot better shape than it was when it was given to them
<2> as for quota, well it works for me...
<0> i don't think openbsd is nearly as innovative as freebsd but what it does it does very well and i never worry about it
<0> i don't like worrying
<2> i.e. "Many fixes for filesystem stability. High load stress tests are now run successfully on a regular basis as part of the normal FreeBSD QA process."
<0> see, ufs2 was quite stable on the net2 tape
<0> and that tape came out in 1991
<3> it's not HW but it IS something i'm learning in cl*** and need ot kno
<2> well, obsd makes a great routers/firewall, but as far as high load serving, it just does not perform/scale very well
<0> so why, 15 years later, do freebsd need to do "many fixes for filesystem stability"?
<3> how do I list the processes that ALL users are running? at least tell me that.
<0> and admittedly soft updates were broken and scary as hell on the net2 tape
<0> but every other bsd os fixed that 13-14 years ago
<2> how old is that?
<2> as i've mentioned before, i used fbsd since 2.x, and i never had fs problems, meanwhile i've seen many linux systems fs's die
<0> openbsd runs slower than freebsd on the same hardwaer
<0> hardware
<0> enough so that i notice without having to benchmark
<3> how do i suspend a process using unix?
<0> i'm not happy about that but i understand why
<3> but not kill it
<0> ^Z
<2> to me, fbsd is a server os, obsd is an excellent router/firewall os.
<0> ***uming your shell supports job control
<0> my personal servers are mostly openbsd now
<0> and i'm migrating the rest
<2> i guess thats because Theo focuses of different things...
<0> they work fine
<0> yes
<0> he does
<0> and i like what he focuses on
<0> stability and security
<2> sure the do, for low work loads...
<2> security greatly depends on the admin
<0> if i need to get more work done i get more machines
<2> you will find that fbsd's security is not bad
<0> security depends on both the admin and the software
<2> yes
<2> i've never had a box hacked in to....
<0> freebsd is reasonably secure out of the box
<0> better than most oses i'd say
<0> i'm glad freebsd finally got pf btw
<2> sure, obsd takes it more seriously on the low level
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