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Comments:
<0> The one with a mission in India.
<1> Mother Theresa
<2> Lupine: what should he have done
<3> hahah
<3> i bet
<0> Her altruism was to ensure her ticket to heaven first cl***..
<4> me too. articles like this one make me ****ing mad: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=copflipped
<0> The mistake people make who believe in altruism is they belive money is the only payoff.
<3> cops is the best show ever aired
<5> Free: I disagree ... there IS altruism ... all that means is you do good for it's own sake instead of an external reward
<6> bob: running after fleeing suspects with a gun = bad ju ju
<7> if there were more Mother Theresas out there....maybe religion would not be such a turn-off for many
<5> if you do it because it makes you feel good, it's still altruism
<0> No actually it has been studied and psychological pay offs are much more important to most people than money
<5> Free: it's still altruism
<4> Lupine: I don't know much about civil law I guess. if my life were threatened, and I had a weapon, I'd probably use it on anyone in the room, and to hell with jail time, cops, or whatever.
<0> IN tests they did employees preferred and employer who paid less and respeted them more over someone who paid more and respected them less.
<5> Free: it doesn't mean NO reward, it means no EXTERNAL reward
<2> Lupine: well how was he supposed to pursue them
<0> OcDoc no it isnt.
<0> Altruism is doing something with no regard for yoursel.
<6> bob: he's not. your only right to use a firearm is in self defense, ro defense of another
<0> by definition
<7> tweek..only one thing to know...
<5> Free: I guess we just disagree then
<0> And everything we do all of us to some degree has somethign for us, some pay off.
<4> don't shoot at cops?
<6> you can not use lethal force to hold someone either
<7> better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6 :)
<0> Money, Psychological, Status, power, Liberal Feel Good..
<2> Lupine: he didn't know if the suspects had guns or not
<4> heh, good point
<7> in TX if someone breaks into your house,...they are armed
<6> bob: he was chasing them as they ran away.. hence, it is irrelevent if they "had" guns or not
<6> Cry: in florida, it is now the _law_ that if someone is breaking into your house, you are in fear of your life.. :-)
<5> 1 : unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others
<5> 2 : behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species
<5> Merriam-Webster
<0> Why do whites who dont even know black people like to take up their cause and help them because they cant help themselves.. Its a psychological pay off, I am a good person, Even though you are excploiting black people for your own self esteem and you are diminishing their self esteem by ***uming they cant do it on thier own.
<7> guest58....we are through debating in private....
<4> Lupine: is it legal for someone to request lethal force if they believe their life is endangered?
<0> Thats just an example.
<2> Lupine: if the cops in the patrol car had seen them leaving the store, could they have pursued with their guns?
<6> Bob: uniformed officers, yes.
<7> anyone who thinks that the USA engineered the WTC attacks of 9/11 needs a dose of reality
<2> why them and not the off-duty cop?
<6> BOB: well, on duty uniformed officers
<0> I reject the principle of altruism except maybe with the deepest love for ones child or family member. And even then the pay off is I dont have to feel the pain of losing them if I die to save them.
<7> an off duty cop is still a cop
<6> bob: because they should be held to 100.00000% of the same standard as any other citizen
<6> Cry: right.. which means he has been trained on how to act while not in uniform
<4> CryHavoc: nah, the off-duty cop has the same legal window as a citizen
<8> my appologies, but dont you see that your faith to your country, which is competely justified, has stopped you from seeing a very real possibility
<7> cops are held to a higher standard than John Q
<0> So there is always a benefit to the things we are doing besides yacking on irc procastrinating.
<2> an off-duty cop is not the same as any other citizen. he's a trained responder
<7> there is nothing real about that spin....
<7> its nonsense
<6> Cry: No, they are held to a lower standard in most areas. when a cop commits a crime, he isn't arrested/booked/arraigned like others.. he's given a vacation
<7> tweek..nope...cop training forces them to be held to a higher standard
<6> bob: right, in this case, the off duty officer ****ed up
<8> how can you just dismiss such an issue though. as unthinkable as it is, what if it is true?
<7> Lupine,..I tend to agree with you...
<2> he ****ed up by responding as trained?
<4> nah, you'd think a cop would know the ****ing law though...
<0> Even irc there is a benefit, Iget to enjoy my debating skills.I get to test my knowlege of politics. Sometimes right sometimes wrong..
<6> bob: no, he did NOT respond as trained
<7> In Las Vegas, a cop there has yet to be found at fault for a fatality caused by a cop...
<7> 0/87
<2> Lupine: you just said it would have been OK for the other cops to do what he did... did you forget saying that?
<9> Cry: Good cops.
<5> Free: it's a range of possibilities ... selfishness is excessive focus on one's own welfare ... altruism is disregard for one's own welfare for a higher good
<6> bob: cops on duty, and in uniform
<7> like the cop running with lights out in the dark kills a motorcyclyist
<0> Nope, Sorry I will leave this debate with the ***ertion that altruism is not something we really live for. I deny it.
<5> Free: there is no such thing as an action without any reward, or a totally selfish act
<0> OcDoc, what if the higher good isnt a higher good.
<7> astro..nope...bad bad oinkers.....worse in some respects than the LAPD
<5> Free: it's the motivator ... you think it is a higher good or you wouldn't do it
<4> **** cops in general...
<7> or the cop that drills a vagrant with 13 rounds....
<9> Cry: Ah. Damn.
<0> Was it a higher good when Mother Theresa denied indians drugs for pain when they were dying because she believed it would be more spiritual to die with pain and all ?
<7> guy was dribbling a basketball..
<0> Is that altruism ?
<2> **** DA POLEECE
<6> notice: cops are never held to the same or higher standard as citizens. They are NEVER handcuffed, NEVER brought down to the precint/booked/charged/arraigned/etc. They always get "administrative leave"
<2> **** DA POLEECE
<5> Free: yes
<9> I actually really like the Tulsa Police... they've always been really good at what they do.
<7> Memo: do not send kids out in Vegas with Basketballs.
<5> Free: I might disagree, but it was what motivated her
<4> **** YOU I WON'T DO WHATCHA TELL ME... (ad nauseum)
<0> YOU know google an article on Mother Theresa by Christopher Hitchens, First appeared in Salon.com Excellent article.
<6> Cry: you see, that is my fundmental problem with the "fraternal order", they all treat criminal-cops with kid gloves to a lesser standard. No, if a cop commits a crime, he should face the same consequences as you and I.
<10> she was no mother theresa, that's for sure
<7> I agree
<0> OcDoc, I love you man but i dont believe in altruism.
<6> of course, obviously, there are differences in what is lawful and not lawful for an officer: i.e. speeding with lights and sirens, etc..
<7> same goes for a GLITTERATI....
<4> there's little less distasteful to me than a crooked cop
<5> Free: I don't believe in it either ... but it exists
<7> but it won't be so...
<0> OcDoc hehe
<4> which is why I enjoyed the ending for GTA:SA so ****ing much
<7> MJ and OJ skated
<7> you or I would not
<6> Cry: so, this is why I say it is a "good shooting".. as you KNOW that offduty officer wouldn't have been treated the same as if we did it
<5> the word means what it means, and people sometimes do things for altruistic reasons
<5> so the word describes a real phenomenon
<4> look, perhaps it could be called an objective shooting, or civil, or legitimate
<7> if I kill someone with my Pistol...I have a lower standard of justification I have to meet
<4> but when someone gets shot it's rarely good unless the guy's a complete ***hole
<4> </soapbox>
<5> tweek: too many negatives in that sentence
<0> I just beleive we get paid off in different ways.. Ocdoc you ever read David Hume ? One of my favorite philosophers, he believes we are born with empathy and uses examples of how if you hurt one baby in a room full of babies like stick one with a needld usually all of them will follow the lead baby and start crying.
<0> I too believe empathy is an instinct.
<7> a former co-workers husband is a deputy sheriff...
<7> he works in courtroom....
<5> Free: of course I"ve read Hume
<4> 'rarely' 'unless'
<5> can't remember a thing he wrote though
<7> he had to physically restrain a hostile suspect...
<0> its the reason we do things for others because we do live and feel their pain through our own pain experiences and imagination.
<9> FT: Since Oc is a doc... Heh.
<7> guess waht?
<0> Minus psychopaths of coure.
<0> course
<0> Or sociopaths
<7> 3 days suspension and a full investigation..he was required to prove his actions were justified
<11> so what do you guys think about hamas winning in the elections
<5> Calidank: makes no dif
<0> Oc, He was the Scottish Deist friend of Adam Smiths. He was a tabula Rosa + man (Thats how I describe him, He believes that we are born blank slates other than some instincts. and that we learn everything from experience like most empiricists, the difference with him though is he believes we take what we learn and we can ealign it in our imagination to dream up new concepts which are derived from experience other than as their ba
<11> how so ocdoc ?
<0> It makes a lot of sense to me.
<0> Especially with a empathy instinct.
<11> adam smith ?
<11> the economist from back in the day ?
<5> Free: ah, yes ... I recall ... but it's not true ... all of us are a combination of instinct, learning, and instinct perverted by learning
<0> Go to the theater, and when people alll cringe, its because they feel the pain in a certain way of a guy hitting a brick wall head on ;)
<5> Calidank: whoever tries to "lead" palestine will have to bridge the gap between rhetoric and hatred on the one hand, and practicality on the other ... and they will fail
<0> YEs Adam Smith the economist and Moral Philosopher was a good friend of David Hume a moral Philospher who belonged to the group which became known to have had the scottish enlightenment.
<0> Or sometimes referred to as.
<11> freetrade instresting
<0> Deists, Floating raft floats all etc.
<11> i just learned about adam smith in my buisness course
<11> funny you bring him up
<0> There is no zero sum gain, that wealth produces wealth.
<6> Cry: right, that is a lesser standard than for a citizen: who would have been arrested/booked/arraigned/sit in jail, etc
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