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Comments:
<0> the effects will be decent though
<1> DarthBurg, cept some countries did not join in cause they felt there wasn't sufficient evidence
<2> in fact, turns out, Saddam was banking on the US Doing Nothing. I wonder where he got that idea.
<0> they had a trailer for it before X Men III today
<1> or need to go to war
<3> DarthBurg -- According to Aziz, "The people in the Military Industrial Commission were liars. They lied to you, and they lied to Saddam. They were always saying that they were producing or procuring special weapons so that they could get favors out of Saddam -- money, cars, everything -- but they were liars. If they did all of this business and brought in all of these secret weapons, why didn't [the weapons] work?"
<1> and countries made the gamble...
<4> dont tell me anything..going to vegas for the weekend so it'll be next week before i can see X3
<5> bud`, you don't drive people to death for nonsense..
<2> Bloc and there were those of course, who were on the take.
<6> I think the biggest problem the US has now is not creating enough high school dropouts and under achievers to fill service jobs
<0> Bloc...a shame that people can not see the big picture...
<1> so there was a chance to be right if you went to war, or stayed out of it
<0> Wot...not a problem :)
<5> bud`, while everyone is happy without saddam.. but.. well at some point. we didn't face.. that much.. casualties with saddam..
<0> that is...we can create enough sheeples for those jobs
<2> AAAman and that proves what, exactly? hmm? that the Iraq had WMD or not, in 2003
<6> big problem here
<1> DarthBurg, you're making the argumenet lots of WMD evidence....so you MUST go to war
<7> WotGorila thats because all the ones that do exist are busy wasting their life on IRC
<6> heh, probably
<5> bud`, now at least the US have more to worry about.. while laden is still free..
<0> afrenchci....and further down the road..when he takes over Kuwait, Saudi and the UAE.....how many dead then?
<1> DarthBurg, and according to many western states...it was intel and you had to make a choice
<4> I wish people would stop over simplifying the decision to go to war here
<0> 60 million? 200 million?
<1> let's say a percentage
<8> Bloc i didnt care about WMD's to be honest. I dont think many did at the time. it was all about well documented intent
<4> its this ONE THING no really i heard taht
<9> what was it I heard - strange how the unemployed legal US citizen -- are equal to number of Illegals??
<1> bud`, fair enough:)
<6> we've taught american kids they all have to be winners and make 100K a year..or don't bother working
<0> Kaliuna..you remember the Ghost Rider :)
<2> bloc, well the point that we know now just goes to show sometimes you have to invade to find out whats going on. the inspectors sure worked good, huh.
<4> wow im a big winer :)
<1> bud`, i just felt saddam was a mob leader, not a state leader...he never had the majority of the people
<9> cry -- ya
<1> DarthBurg, no you don't have to invade to find out whats going on
<1> that's a fallacy
<0> Kali.. February 2007
<2> BLoc, really?
<1> DarthBurg, yes
<1> DarthBurg, espionage is often enough
<0> and it may be pretty decent
<9> cry -- hmm don't remember dating thing....
<2> Fallacy how, you folks are using intel we would have never gained any other way, but invasion.
<1> and you can get a good indication of whether or not its required to invade
<1> since many countries did not attack...the validity was enough to go one way or the other
<5> WotGorila, looks like we all have the same issue :) looks like.. but this is something else
<2> Granted to make intelligence retrieval a priority, but thats standard procedure. unless of course, you are a donkey. but thats another topic.
<3> DarthBurg -- For many months after the fall of Baghdad, a number of senior Iraqi officials in coalition custody continued to believe it possible that Iraq still possessed a WMD capability hidden away somewhere (although they adamantly insisted that they had no direct knowledge of WMD programs).
<2> well, i think it is rather clear had the US not invaded, we would still be in the dark as to what was going on in Iraq.
<6> well, in our small town we have hotels and restaurants that can't open because there are no workers
<1> DarthBurg, of course;)
<3> Coalition interviewers discovered that this belief was based on the fact that Iraq had possessed and used WMD in the past and might need them again; on the plausibility of secret, compartmentalized WMD programs existing given how the Iraqi regime worked; and on the fact that so many Western governments believed such programs existed.
<2> so invading is not a fallacy then.
<1> DarthBurg, if you didn't invade, you'd know just as much as you did then
<1> DarthBurg, and save a lot of money
<1> cause there was nothing to know
<3> Saddam's Delusions: The View from the Inside
<10> DarthBurg: well its good to know that when we need intelligence; we can just invade a country.
<2> Bloc, how would you get your hands on some of these documents and get to search about the country unless you invade?
<1> DarthBurg, well those 5 items i listed
<11> Libertine: I take it you are/were against the war.. :)
<12> saddam provided the documents
<1> 1) UN support 2) bomb at will 3) inspectors on ground 4) no fly zone 6) embargo
<12> bush didnt believe them
<4> cool.. we should consult psychics instead of all the intel agencies so we can know what we will find at the end of it all
<2> Libertine I think its fair to say that Iraq, having signed an unconditional cease fire, was a special case.
<11> Darth: indeed
<1> please feel free to add money to any of those 5 items
<5> bud`, the overall french politician point of view... was that promoting democracy through contagion like it has worked in Europe, would have worked in iraq, too, especially as the EU got closer..
<1> and feel free to bomb structures
<10> Timur: I don't mind war; I just don't like paying for war.
<11> Darth: not to mention: tiens: www.cnn.com/2003/US/06/04/nyt.friedman/
<6> We used to bring in European kids to work summer jobs in NY, but kids can make more money in Europe now..plus they can smoke and drink in clubs
<11> Lib: ah, well, life demands payment for so many things in so many ways
<1> i bring up bloc's 5 measure to keep a rogue state in control
<1> 1) UN support 2) bomb at will 3) inspectors on ground 4) no fly zone 6) embargo
<3> DarthBurg - -Truth -- During the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, writes the intelligence community's former senior analyst for the Middle East, the Bush administration disregarded the community's expertise, politicized the intelligence process, and selected unrepresentative raw intelligence to make its public case.
<2> 1) UN support for what, more palaces and oil fraud 2) Bomb at will (We tried that) 3) we had inspectors on the ground, and they were tripping over **** saddam was not supposed to have 4) No FLy Zone 6) Iraq was under sanction
<2> so whats the deal.
<5> WotGorila, and they may only work 35 hours a week ;-) too
<10> Timur: eh, what is worth paying for with my tax money is a subject I often am willing to discuss.
<2> another ten years?
<2> another twenty?
<4> 500000 it'll work eventually
<1> UN support to bomb at will, to have other nations support the holding of the state
<8> afrenchci your country really has no say on the issue, because your politicians were bought by saddam, and your journalists also, paid to publish stories AGAINST the war that many people to this day still use as talking points to trash america's liberation of Iraq
<11> Lib: well, imo, a war to put the US boot down is worth something
<4> if you wait long enough the universe will die a heat death
<11> esp in that area
<10> Timur: that is your only criteria?
<1> un support is the least necessary of the 5...but it helps with the war on ideas
<2> AAAman irrelevant, one man's opinion, that just happened to mirror the minority big whoop
<6> funny, most of the kids that come from really poor countries in Europe hate it in America and can't wait to get home
<6> yeah, they work less in Europe too
<2> well, i would not be citing the UN as necessary
<4> most kids from anywhere hate it anywhere else and cant wait to get home
<1> DarthBurg, yeah un support not in iraq isn't helping is it:)
<4> away from friends and such
<5> bud`, i would have said.. you are right.. if WMD would have been found and all. but NONE were found.. you don't have an arguement in here.. from my point of view
<1> DarthBurg, at least you'd have a few extra peace keepers
<6> unless they are from NY...and they all leave
<6> :)
<1> some more 3rd party inspectors
<2> Bloc, so they could rape the locals? p***.
<13> Both sarin and mustard gas were found.... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120913,00.html
<3> DarthBurg -- a long career in the Central Intelligence Agency, he served as National Intelligence Officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005
<5> bud`, terrorists came in after the war.. and no WMD were found
<1> DarthBurg, that's a lie thanks
<8> afrenchci I've never argued WMD being the reason to go to war, I said I didnt care about their existance. To me it was about other things, such as intent
<3> DarthBurg -- Who would know better
<1> [18:14] <2> Bloc, so they could rape the locals? p***. <- what a stupid statement
<14> Exdeath: thats some stockpiles
<2> Bloc, no UN officials have been raping peiople? those were all lies?
<2> what a shock.
<1> DarthBurg, i could make the same dumb ***ertion
<4> there were some WMDs found but bud is right.. it was not JUST about wmd's or oil or whatever the catchall reason someone wants to use
<2> it was in the news dude.
<6> it will be interesting to watch what happens this summer how businesses cope with no employees
<4> the decision was complex
<2> its not an ***ertation.
<3> DarthBurg --. A commission chaired by Judge Laurence Silberman and former Senator Charles Robb usefully documented the intelligence community's mistakes in a solid and comprehensive report released in March 2005. Corrections were indeed in order, and the intelligence community has begun to make them
<1> DarthBurg, yeah send in the US army so they can torture citizens
<5> bud`, did you ever dream to rule the US.. ??
<1> DarthBurg , didn't the us army torture!
<15> Wow. American Marines are now accused of murdering civilians in Iraq. OMG American servicemen all murder people!!!
<15> :)
<2> bloc I am sorry but panties on the head just ain't torture.
<15> see how silly that is?
<13> Lithium: I never said that
<1> DarthBurg, an example of grandious statements by using a few bad apples to generalize the majority
<10> I like when the US government changed the definition of a WMD; now it would include several of the devices the Mythbusters have detonated.
<3> DarthBurg -- Killing people and using dogs is play
<8> afrenchci what makes you think I'm a yank? =P
<4> libertine such as?
<5> bud i would recommend second volume, easy to read and figure out... very good report about WMD investigations... You
<5> 'll start with an overall perception there was WMD.. because at start of each chapters.. they say "saddam had th
<5> e intention, he thought, he could have done", but if you go further, than nothing, most stuff were destroyed eit
<5> her during the war in koweit or by UN pressure... http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/
<1> DarthBurg, and that us soldier didn't get convicted for torture;)
<1> DarthBurg, darn the military tribunal
<2> Bloc haha except for the minor fact the UN does not have single success story under its belt.
<10> bun-bun: cement truck bomb (easy), and even the tree canon when it was turned into a bomb.
<3> DarthBurg -- The administration defended itself by pointing out that it was not alone in its view that Saddam had weapons of m*** destruction (WMD) and active weapons programs, however mistaken that view may have been.
<10> cannon, typo
<4> he had nothing because most stuff was destroyed? doesnt that imply that a) there was stuff and b) some stuff was not destroyed?
<1> DarthBurg, again i'm not making the statement that US military tortures:) just using it as an exmaple to deflate your UN soldiers rape
<11> some people have no sense of perspective. :) one wonders if it's deliberate, as an attention-getting mechanism, or if they are that naive
<2> Bloc, you mean, the soldiers that abused prisoners had to see the man? gawrsh.
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