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Comments:
<0> They failed.
<0> They moved to swiftly
<1> Free I know
<2> Rebec: The big problem with the... bloodbath method, is that you tend to create a government so powerful, that it simply becomes a dictatorship itself.
<3> failure is the only thing that makes sense
<3> even in freedom
<1> Astro not necessarily
<4> FreeTrade: Russians during the Cold War?
<0> China is the perfect example of how to turn a huge oil tanker 180 degrees by moving it extremely slowly.
<0> I hope that metaphor isnt too silly ;)
<1> Publius Russia has a history of being historially backwards etc
<5> it's a good physical metaphor, imo
<2> Rebec: I'm not aware of anywhere that its worked well. *shrug*
<1> I don't wish to give my lecture on it now though
<3> idealism is rather non sophisticated
<1> Astro well go take some cl***es
<4> rebec: I agree with that
<3> its usually played out by now
<5> anyone who's studied elementary physics will understand it easily
<4> so I will hush again
<2> Rebec: Mind PM'ing me the clif notes? ;)
<1> Pub I could go on and on about russia and revolution etc
<1> Astro nope
<0> Btu they have moved progressively toward a more capitalist and nation of liberty.. Though they have a long way to go, the movements over time almost insures they will not retreat far if things go bad which is what happend in Russia
<2> Hey
<1> Astro I believe if you want to talk to me you should have a clue first it's not my job to give you that clue
<2> Does anyone here want anything from Singapore?
<0> Lawlessness broke out in Russia which to some was worse than communism
<0> so they pulled back and centralized power in the state very heavily again
<1> Free that's true, but some of that had to do with how they went about the 91 coup if that is the one you are talking about
<1> and the mafia got too much power
<1> that was what I'd call a botched revolution
<2> Rebec: Most of my knowledge of history, and poli sci, covers the past... oh 60 years, or like 4,000 years ago. :P
<6> In the 1970s and 1980s, a number of brutal terrorist organizations arose in democratic countries: the Red Brigades in Italy
<3> im wondering if democracy can even survive the left which agree in history...idealists in bush are just a whisper...rome is about history
<0> Rebec, Well I am thinking about how fast they tried to acheive something they had never known and I believe it went too fast, And thats why it failed.
<1> Astro this is my problem how??
<6> Provisional Irish Republican Army
<1> Free I wrote a paper on that topic
<0> I think it may yes succeed but its going to take more time.
<0> yes = yet
<1> it also has to do with their cultural and historial heritage
<2> Rebec: Because my lack of knowledge appears to irritate you? *grin*
<1> but they will acheive it
<0> Thats what I said
<1> Astro lots of people's lack of knowledge irritates me
<6> the Red Army Faction (or Baader-Meinhof Gang) in West Germany
<7> rebec whats for dinner?
<1> Free yep they botched it up because of old hang ups and too much too fast
<0> They have never known freedom, the most freedom they ever knew were under the later Czars when they had a middle cl***.
<1> oakster are you coming over?
<7> no
<6> Terror in the Name of God will not be stopped by democray
<0> Tcaikowsky grew up in a middle cl*** home under the czars.
<7> just for reference
<2> Rebec: Well, I think we could pretty trivially resolve that, atleast for me. :P
<1> Free I mean the rest of the world was becoming enlightened and they were reaffirming the autocratic power of the tsar
<0> Tchaikowski
<1> the executive can still disovlve the duma
<0> Damn hard name to spell
<1> no wonder they can't get things done
<2> Rebec: Any books you'd suggest?
<3> im an idealist...i believe in the bible
<1> Astro on which subject specifically
<0> Rebec, Putin was a good looking False hope
<4> Did Peter the great abolish the serfom for a time or am I just not close?
<4> serfdom
<1> Pub I think it was alexander the third
<2> Rebec: Democracy outside of primarily peaceful revolution, contemporarily.
<4> yep, haha I was off
<1> he said to abolish surfdom from the top down before it did it from the bottom up
<1> I think
<0> Ex KGB with totalitarian instincts, and yet he realized he cant go back to the soviet union or to communism.
<1> It may have been a different tsar
<1> I'd have to look, it happened on my birthday so look up in a today in history thing Feb 19
<1> Astro I'd have to think about that
<2> Free: Putin is.... interesting.
<3> its amazing how we are still playing out a book that no one completely understands accept to label it as religious
<0> Peter the Great was the first to really engage the west, The clergy considered he might be the anti christ, he laughed about the clergy
<2> Rebec: If ya wouldn't mind, I'd love to get some suggested reading. ;)
<8> Hey if anyone is interested in seeing the Frontline documentary "House of Saud" here is a link to a torrent that has it, although it is just one file of many in this torrent so get the others out of the DL list to save time
<0> I am most ***ured in my mind that Peter the Great was an Atheist
<3> even thomas jefferson would agree to such a garbage statement
<1> Astro on revolutions specifically
<8> http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3386785
<0> But he had the curiousity of a kid
<0> he went to holland asked for a job building ships demanded that his identity not be known and that he start as a laborer.
<2> Rebec: Right. The role violent revolution has played in democracy.
<1> Free I believe Peter the Great was an athiest, he was an interesting man
<8> I am just downloading it now though, so i can't garantee it's quality
<1> Astro alright I will think about it and check my bookshelf
<0> Of course he was so big and imposing noone could not recognize him so it quickly got around.
<1> both
<1> maybe I will ask some other people
<1> as well
<2> Boka: If its decent quality, I can stream it, if you'd like.
<0> he spend 3 months in the Dutch shipyards (The best in that era) and then went to england and he took a try at Dentistry.
<0> hhehe
<0> Of all things
<0> He was just a very curious man
<3> filtering information only is recognized thru the book
<0> A great man in some ways a cruel man in other ways.
<0> Cruelty was common to that period though across europe
<1> who was asking about surfdom
<7> how did a man become great?
<4> Any recommendiatons for books on the COld War in general I could go buy at borders tonight?
<1> 1861 surfdom is abolished in Russia
<2> Free: Got a moment, for PM?
<0> Peter the Great is the most fascinating of the czars, he preferred the company of foreignors to Russians. He established Russias first strategic and important Sea port
<1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_19
<8> Astro: Cool, well i haven't dl'd it yet but I will let you know how it works out
<4> oh..sorry
<3> being open minded doesnt necessarily get you around pre defined laws
<0> He advanced womens rights 200 years. He Fought a great was with the greatest army in europe,. the Swedes.
<4> yeah, I'm there
<0> was = great war
<9> Rebec: + my birthday ;)
<4> any books coldwar I can go buy so I can spare my eyes some times
<10> He murdered his son too.
<1> icmps my birthday too
<10> beat him to death
<1> your birthday?
<1> happy belated birthday to us!
<0> Hans who did ?
<9> Heh. thats cool
<10> Peter the Great
<0> Odd that wasnt in my biography
<2> That extends to anyone here, btw. If you want to stream a historical, or policial vid, let me know. No Alex Jones, or Facist crap, though. :P
<1> hans he put his wife's lover's head in a jar next to her bed
<1> I don't know anything about him murdering his son
<0> He did divorce his wife.
<0> He couldnt stand her.
<1> he sent her to a convent
<1> I thought
<0> He was such an anomaly
<8> That's pretty bad*** Astrodog, i think that would be a nice resource for this channel
<7> she bitched?
<0> Rebec, yep
<3> i got quite interested in the celts
<4> Astrodog: What do you me?
<1> oakster his wife was a bitch
<4> mean*
<0> She spent her life in a convent.
<2> Pub: If you find some educational, or interesting video, about politics, political science, or history, I'd be happy to put up a publicly accessable stream.
<7> but most women are bitch
<10> Frederick the Great's father was tough as nails (about the same time)....he had Frederick's lover killed in front of him when caught trying to flee to England.
<7> its just something we have to get use to
<11> lol
<7> and most guys are dogs
<1> oakster not like her
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