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Comments:
<0> so, im going to go with the presidents with all the blood on their hands.
<1> Nixon set the economic table
<2> AAAman, I do, were we talking about Nixon?
<0> but thats just my silly view.
<2> liberT, yeah, it is.
<3> all leaders have blod on their hands, it's an issue of who's blood
<4> what the hell did he do anyway
<3> and how many
<4> I know he was involved in Camp David
<1> Inflation started with Nixon -- he attempted price controls
<4> and the hostage crisis
<0> US_Male: if we're going by sheer numbers, Monroe and Lincoln would take the prize.
<1> Oil embargo started with Nixon
<3> liberT: but we don't go by sheer numbers
<3> it depends on who you kill, and why
<5> For all their faults, Carter and Clinton are the only ones who were able to achieve peace between Israel and Arab nations/groups.
<2> AAAman, face it, Carter won't be remembered for anything but his overall weakness.
<4> AAAman: Oil Embargo started because Europe abandoned Israel for oil
<6> yikes, Sifea isn't looking so hot here
<6> http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1227/gaddafi.jpg
<0> Carter's biggest fault was his aversion to nuclear power.. ehh
<6> Seifa that is
<2> FedUp, actually they never did that, it's still going on.
<1> Carter did little to shape history, good or bad
<7> Oh, yes. The Second Intifada was, by all accounts, the most peaceful event in world history.
<2> AAAman, Carter did little of anything.
<5> TheTailor Peace treaties (Camp David and Oslo) that fell apart, in part (not all but in part) because America didn't follow through with the same engagement.
<2> praxis9, Carter made rainbows every day in the middle east!
<8> Zoro RULES!
<8> RAWWWRRR!!
<3> I thought of a new nickname for Hillary ..... Shrillary
<7> Carter fondled Castro's balls.
<2> FedUp, that's stupid, it is all on the parties, none of it is on the US
<1> TheTailor -- He did arrange some serious negotiation. He also develop many of the weapon systems that Reagan used
<2> AAAman, what weapons systems?
<4> What about LBJ
<1> TheTailor -- Most of our better weapons were originated by Carter
<2> AAAman, what weapons systems?
<5> TheTailor HIstory has showed that when US presidents take an active interest, it can reap benefits. W basically couldn't care less about the middle east before 9/11, and that was really unfortunate.
<3> "LBJ is a horse's ***"
<5> showed=shown
<1> TheTailor -- I beleive the F15 and the M1Tank
<9> AAAman: by carter? bwahahahaha.. carter tried to axe everything
<2> FedUp, gee, we were talking about Carter.
<10> go type worst president in google
<2> FedUp, nice red herring there though.
<9> he succeeded in the SuperEagle F-15.. and the B1 bomber, and the Tomcat upgrades
<11> im a nice red herring
<1> Lupine -- Carter had an excellent Sec of Def -- Brown for weapons development
<5> TheTailor Yes, and the Camp David Accords. If you're going to argue that strife in the MIddle East is ongoing, therefore Carter didn't accomplish anything, you need to look at what has happened to US engagement in the meantime.
<9> AAAman: but carter himself was axing stuff left and right
<1> Carter was a smart cookie in many respects
<6> http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/14/0,1886,2398350,00.jpg <- I see Exxon is here, surely wanting more from me
<2> FedUp, face facts, Carter failed, there isn't peace in the middle east.
<1> Lupine -- The weapons research and development of Carter is the basis of American strength today
<2> AAAman, really? Where?
<10> Clinton failed
<6> http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/020724/2002072415.html
<5> TheTailor But there was MORE peace for a time.
<2> AAAman, he was in stealth?
<6> Israteen forever !
<1> Carter has also sorts of degrees in engineering
<2> FedUp, well no, there wasn't any peace at all
<10> has bush even bothered with israeli-palestinian relations
<5> TheTailor Camp David Accords: peace with Egypt.
<12> Why is it when Reps axe the budget, its "good" and when Dems axe the budget its "bad"?
<10> other than try to cut money off to hamas
<2> AAAman, hahaha, are you suggesting Carter designed something?>
<9> AAAman: Um, the F-15 project was first formalized in 1967.. from an earlier program of the FX
<2> AAAman, for the military?
<1> TheTailor -- Carter had them designed
<9> AAAman: yea, like Al Gore invented the internet
<2> BlueJeans, who said when dems slash it's bad?
<9> Carter was axing military program after military program
<1> TheTailor -- Carter graduated from the Naval Academy and commanded a nuclear sub
<6> where was Carter on Israteen though ?
<2> BlueJeans, when did the dems ever slash a program?
<12> Carter stopped a war in the Middle East. A remarkable thing. And the peace between Egypt and Isreal exists to this day. Carter didn't get ****ed into a useless war there with the Hostages. Carter was quite wise.
<9> An industry-wide competition ended on December 23, 1969 when McDonnell Douglas was awarded the contract for the F-15.
<10> we all know that Warren Harding is the worst president of all time
<2> AAAman, what has that to do with that silly engineering comment?
<9> Yea.. President Carter "designed" the F-15 eagle.. lol
<6> hey, Cheney sold the F-15
<9> tailor: carter designed a system to **** seamen out of long-hard rods
<1> TheTailor -- He as a degree in engineering of course
<2> BlueJeans, no, Carter didn't stop any war
<6> Bush's father even uncapped the limit of 54 f-15's to Saudi Arabia in early 90's
<4> FRANCE faces a week of chaos with a strike set to paralyse a nation already shaken by furious protests against new employment laws
<3> Carter was a moron, politically
<6> Cheny sold the Saud's some 72, or 74 I think
<4> http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=469602006
<2> http://www.censurecarter.com/
<10> who sold Iran F-14s
<6> not bad business if you make the f-15 heh
<5> TheTailor You can't argue against something not existing. Who knows how much more violence there would have been without Camp David?
<10> that guy needs a censuring
<3> he was one of the worst presidents we've had. Most Democrats in the channel have admitted this
<6> reminds me of 'Deal of the Century' with Chevy Chase
<13> bush is going to plunge the world into chaos thinking he can blow up the iranian nuclear program
<6> 'just a little touch up job'
<2> FedUp, we do, whatever the body count is up to
<13> doing the work of israel
<12> TheTailor, go back to your history. Carter negotiated the peace between Sadat and Begin. It wouldn't it happen without him. Carter was a remarkable man.
<13> he sure was
<5> TheTailor Huh? English please.
<13> farmed the best peanuts ever known
<1> Carter: Work started on several new warheads, including the W87 strategic warhead for the Peacekeeper intercontinental ballistic missile, the W84 tactical warhead for the ground-launched cruise missile, and the B83, a modern strategic bomb.
<2> bellhaven, wasn't the EU3 taking care of that?
<9> AAAman: also, carter virtually stalled stealth delopement by a decade.. having all-but-axed the Have Blue and Tacit Blue programs..
<13> TheTailor: they are working on it
<9> AAAman: lol.. now carter is a rocket scientist.. ;-)
<13> TheTailor: look at the mess bush got us into the last time he charged head first into something
<2> FedUp, how many have died since Carter stopped the war or violence or whatever you call what's going on in Israel?
<9> AAAMan: my dad quit his job, and turned in his AF wings over Carter's axing weapons programs left and right.
<1> Lupine -- You are right
<2> bellhaven, Bush isn't involved in it, the EU3 were
<2> idjit
<9> He wasn't going to put substandard equipment in place of the real stuff, just to satisfy Carter's axing projects
<13> TheTailor: im talking about iraq.. what an outstanding piece of bush foreign policy that was.. F the world, im goin in
<5> TheTailor I'm not saying, and never said, that he stopped all violence in Israel, or any specific war. I'm saying that he somehow convinced an Arab country to sit down and sign an accord with Israel, which was unprecedented. There's no telling how much MORE violence there would have been without that step.
<2> bellhaven, I actually like his efforts.
<14> What "negotiated" the peace between Sadat and Begin was the fact that Israel kicked the ever-loving **** out of Egypt in a war and Egypt begged for mercy.
<0> bellhaven: it worked fine in Poland, 1939...
<13> TheTailor: great, i hope one day you can look back and be proud.. but right now, there is no end to the violence in sight, they still havent 'formed a government' from the much balleyhooed elections back in what.. december?
<13> its almost april?
<5> TheTailor If only that record of progress could have continued, with American presidents in the lead.
<4> DiscoTaco: Sing it
<4> whoo
<2> FedUp, you said he brought peace, a falsehood.
<4> 6 days
<4> lol
<4> Israel's airforce brought peace
<9> AAAMan: thanks to President Carter, and his budget cuts.. the premier fleet defense fighter, the F-14 Tomcat.. couldn't use afterburners except during operational emergencies in the B and D models
<2> haha, no ****
<5> TheTailor I said he was able to "achieve peace" (by which I meant a public and formal accord, sorry if you needed the clarification) between Israel and an Arab neighbor.
<4> TheTailor: The EU has some balls
<4> European Union leaders slapped expanded sanctions on Belarus on Friday and condemned a crackdown against opposition protesters in Minsk.
<5> TheTailor Not for all time and forever, kumbaya.
<1> Lupine: Carter is not perfect
<2> FedUp, nice try, he never achieved peace.
<9> AAAman: of course, but you are talking out your *** concerning carter and the military
<4> LOL
<1> Lupine : People are losing their jobs with Bush
<12> Reagan got credit for taking down the Berlin wall, but reagan did nothing but give one little public scolding. Carter, on the other hand, really did stop a war. Egypt and Israel were lobbing bombs across the Suez Canal at each other. Carter very carefully negotiated a peace for them, that exists to this day.
<1> Lupine : People in the defense establishment are losing their jobs with Bush
<4> AAAman: are you a fan of Alan Greenspan?
<0> AAAman: isn't unemployment at 4%?
<2> BlueJeans, that's all Reagan had to do.
<5> TheTailor So a peace accord between two countries who had fought many wars in the past but have fought no wars in the 30 years since signing is not achieving peace?
<9> AAAMan: you dont see people quiting because they refuse to build substandard military hardware that will put our boys in danger.
<2> BlueJeans, Carter didn't stop any war, ever.
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