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Comments:
<0> why not just let them in
<1> so anyone seen HBO's new series Big Love.. mormon pologamy?
<2> If my livelyhood directly benefited from illegal labor, I'd argue they are great hardworking people also. but I'd realize the other 90% of ppl in my community who dont benefit also have to pay the taxes
<3> We have a huge retired cl*** and we have our own too young to work people
<4> MrRod, yes that's true
<5> MrRod: well, my point was that they cost more because they're illegal, and also because they're a drain on the welfare resources
<6> OcDoc: That's the idea.
<4> MrRod, but cost should not be the main argument
<5> MrRod: so don't give them welfare ... hell, don't give ANYONE welfare
<3> But labor demand is going to increase, Bush doesnt have to worry about unemployment for the rest of his term he will hit the lowest unemploymetn rate in US history before he leaves the presidency
<3> OcDoc, Precisely
<5> MrRod: ending welfare for everyone would save us even MORE
<7> JanetB no, but I listened to an interview with a group of polyamists who said the series did not dipict a realistic picture of thier lifestyle.
<1> he already hit the lowest in history
<3> Or If they arent working productivly, if they break any criminal laws, Send them back
<6> OcDoc: However, illegal immigration is a big benefit to employers who hire them but don't offer medical insurance or, workers comp. insurance, or other such benefits.
<1> KoBushi... I think it is on tonight
<3> If they belong to a gang and you can demonstrate this, send them back
<7> JanetB I don't get HBO
<6> OcDoc: Your taxes are used to support people on welfare.
<5> MrRod: yep
<5> so?
<3> you dont have to like with citizens prove they belong to a gang or risk being sued
<1> awww I am going to watch it, to see what it is like
<0> well my liberal spin on bush's economic unemployment rate...is cause the kids grew up during clinton's prosperous years
<4> remember why Fox got elected... he got elected because he promised the illegals he would get them into the US
<2> it's not just welfare. its a little bit of everything. for example they get in-state tuition, because some GENIUS judge determined since they have no state to call home, they must be deemed in-state
<3> you can send them back if they violate any terms of your agreement
<6> OcDoc: So you do support welfare. Maybe it's no by your choice but you do support it financially.
<5> MrRod: last I heard it was not illegal to buy your own health insurance
<0> so when they finally entered the workforce in bush's term, they're prime candidates
<0> but that's my fun liberal spin:)
<6> OcDoc: It's not illegal but it's prohibitive if you make a low wage. However, more likely they're going to rely on public benefits for their health care.
<5> Bloc: it's also dead wrong, but hey ... enjoy!
<2> cripes. some kids down the street are having a fireworks party
<3> but the other way in which illegal immigration will be dealt with is like this. They will still be here, they will be in the shadows, they wont be documented, their wont be a database of fingerprints photographs and or other biometric identification.
<0> ocdoc, hehe
<3> So you basically are saying its better to homeland security to have 12% of our population undocumented
<6> FreeMrkts: That's how it is now.
<5> MrRod: nope ... in fact I paid LESS for health insurance than my employer could get it for me
<3> than it would be to have them documented
<3> And how do you document them ?
<3> YOU offer them a chance to work, Not break any laws, and you can stay
<2> There's nothing more stupid than openly blasting off fireworks on the same street as a fire prevention officer lives
<3> They will buy more car insurance if they are documented
<6> OcDoc: I bet you make more than they typical illegal immigrant.
<1> you know.. I am baffled, my youngest while in school works part time in a resturant washing dishes, he gets 8.00 and hr, health care... life insurance and dental and a 401k and this is a RESTURANT
<3> they may not leave the scene of an accident when they know they are insured and wont be deported if caught
<5> MrRod: well?
<1> so where is all this non health care and bad wages?
<3> Its all a ++++++++to document them and make them legal
<4> JanetB, it's a myth
<3> its all a -------To not.
<5> MrRod: most illegals are healthy
<3> The biggest dogs in the country say there is no way they can deport these people.
<6> OcDoc: If you made $8 to $10 per hour and were healthy would you buy medical insurance?
<3> Chertoff said that
<0> which immigrant would you rather have one who's graduated from university, or one who hasn't finished high school
<3> the cost of that alone would be staggering not just the economic loss.
<5> JanetB: it has to do with how much they can make here vs. cost of living here, compared to how much they can make back home
<1> MrRod.. his healthcare insurance cost nothing
<0> isn't it fairer for the immigrant who graduated university to come to the US and drive cabs?
<3> WHy doyou think bush wants them here ? For their votes ? They cant vote and they dont want to vote.
<5> MrRod: probably not
<6> OcDoc: Geez. Most illegals are healthy? That's like TheTailor's reason for not having car insurance. He says he's a careful driver so he doesn't need insuranc.e
<3> He understand how important they are to the economy
<3> Ok they are a problem in some border towns, no doubt about it
<5> MrRod: not quite the same
<6> OcDoc: It is to him.
<3> Put heavy police presence in those areas where they are bothering people
<0> i do'nt know if he understands the diff between a mexican immigrant and one fro south east asia
<6> OcDoc: He doesn't have health insurance either.
<5> MrRod: an accident can happen to anybody ... if you could buy accidental health insurance, I would sure do that
<3> And they can slow the growth of aliens if they put more into border control while offering a penalty and then a green card or work visa to existing illegals
<3> Crime will go down if we legalize them
<3> more crimes will be solved
<5> if we opened the borders to legal workers, there might be a lot more of them and many more might not find work though
<5> it's not ALL a good idea
<0> don't forget putting money into more schools, social services, and welfare
<0> after that let's hope the taxes we get from rural workers covers all of that
<3> OcDoc, Its so much more a good idea than the bad part is tiny
<5> but it would be a free market ... if they can't find work here then they have an incentive to go back home
<0> ocdoc, but the dollar is so much more it's better to stay
<3> OcDOc, we would literally suffer if not a depression like 1929 the worst economy since 1929
<6> FreeMrkts: How about unemployment benefits for illegal immigrants?
<7> OcDoc not really; the journey is so dangerous, there wouldn't be anything that provided that much incentive
<5> Bloc: as long as they don't get freebies ... but the same argument applies to americans too
<3> It would devestate the economy, thats my worry and I know they arent leaving thats my relief from my fear
<3> and since they are not going
<7> OcDoc especially ones that come from southern mexico, or from central/south america
<5> KoBushi: I agree
<3> Isnt is more intelligent to document them, ?
<5> only the most enterprising wants to leave home and come here
<3> Or is better to have people with no doucmentation running around our country ?
<5> so we end up with the best of them ... and the most dangerous I admit
<7> So, even if they came here and couldn't find work... they wouldn't return home
<0> yeah i'm just a conservative on immigrant issues
<0> and you're a liberal
<3> OcDoc, but the bad we can come down on hard.
<0> ;P
<6> OcDoc: There are plenty who see better criminal opportunities in the US than in Mexico. That's why some come here.
<3> What republican social conservatives want to do to all of them.. They can do with my blessings to the gangsters and the criminals.
<5> Free: we would have more resources to apply to it
<0> i want 'less change' by not hvaing a huge influx of illegal immigrants
<5> MrRod: I suppose so
<5> MrRod: would it be easier or harder to deal with those few?
<0> the crime reward is greater in the US
<3> But the Buisness Republicans who know they are neccesasary for a good economy we just want to document them so they arent unidentified running around our country
<6> OcDoc: Thousands of them are in prison in California. Those are the ones who were caught.
<3> We want their fingerprints and photographs
<3> So we can slove crimes
<3> solve crimes
<8> FM: all should be required to give photo/fingerprint and DNA. Plus, screening for any illicit drugs
<5> MrRod: send them back to Mexico instead of boarding them in prison, and kill them if you ever catch them here again
<3> The ones in prison in California have nothing to do with the debate
<0> FreeMrkts, good luck on getting data on illegals
<3> because they are criminals
<5> MrRod: problem solved
<8> OcDoc: no, don't kill them. Just give them a free boatride 5 miles to international waters.
<0> that's an expensive bureacrazy
<0> to keep
<3> And if since they come in at 250k a year some percentage of them will be criminals
<5> Bloc: are you being dense on purpose or don't you get it? if they're no longer illegal they will WANT to be documented
<3> we have 2 choices, send them to mexico or prison
<3> and if they murder someone I prefer priso
<6> OcDoc: If you send them back to Mexico they'll be back in the US within days. The Mexican goverment encourages illegal immigration into the US.
<3> Because they can come back
<0> ocdoc, yes so every 10 years, make all illegals, legals?
<5> MrRod: my point is that they get one freebie unless it's murder or armed robbery ... then kill them instead of putting them in prison
<3> I know illegals very well I have worked with them, For developers, I didnt hire them, I worked beside them as a supervisor.
<6> We already had one illegal immigrant amnesty.
<0> anyways:) peace out
<5> Bloc: dumkopf
<5> Bloc: never mind
<3> They would pay 1000 in a heartbeat to be documented and they want to be documented
<3> they would pay more than 1000
<5> MrRod: I'm talking about a permanent amnesty
<3> Its a question of how much the USA wants to charge them
<6> OcDoc: We're not going to kill people for, oh, stealing cars or burglary -- even if they are illegal immigrants.
<9> "Meanwhile, a respected cleric in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif, Mohammed Qasim, said: "We don't care if the West drops its support for us. God will look after Afghanistan.""
<3> They will go up to 2000 no problem since thats about what coyote costs, and then they could p*** through the border legally.
<5> MrRod: no, send them back once with a tatoo ... if you ever catch them in the country ever again, kill them on the spot
<6> FreeMrkts: I bet they'd even pay $1000 for a fool-proof fake green card.
<9> Why are those people so STUPID.
<3> OcDoc, The criminal ones we have to deal with, we could use the death penalty more often.
<6> OcDoc: Dude. That's outlandish.
<3> Especially not citizen crime on citizen crime
<3> hows that ?
<6> OcDoc: We don't kill people for that.
<5> Free: we could make committing a crime while illegally present in the country a death penalty crime
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