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Comments:
<0> yea dont question panini, he read a book, once
<1> there are single moms working 60-70 hrs/wk, honest americans, trying to raise their kids and get by, who are beklwo pofverty line
<1> that's embarr***ing
<2> panini: I do, but I also understand its limitations.
<3> dude
<4> and the ones right in the middle may see little change either way
<1> shameful
<3> im absolutley pleased that fred phelps got beat down
<2> and no, you don't have 'a better understanding of reality', since you deny well established historical fact.
<3> that needs to happen more
<5> no he does not
<2> http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Eco_Unionization.htm might help you.
<6> Timur I am knowledgeable about the history you speak of, and I am also aware of all the myths that have arisen about that period
<5> Unions have had theor day for the most part
<2> panini: except you're not. :)
<6> i am
<1> unions will rise and fall based on worker treatment
<2> or at least, you've shown no sense of knowing about it
<5> has to agree with panini on this matter
<6> i know all about the myths of the mining towns etc
<2> Linus: just so
<0> employers always cared well for their employees, they would never exploit them for their own gain
<0> where did you hear such lunacy?!?!
<1> bmc, ;)
<1> never!
<5> The teachers Union protects their own......incompetent or not
<4> "cared well"... bmc are you a pet puppy ?
<1> employers like black lung!
<1> and having only 1 hr worth of O2
<6> Timur there is a good book on this subject called "Myth of the Robber Barons"... you should read that
<7> When Bush 41 was president he held a education meeting with the governmors and education czars of the 50 states, when they voted anonymously or wrote down the answer to the question "What do you think the worst problem is in education?" The almost unanimous reply was "the Teachers union" Even amongst democrats. In fact the Democratic Governor of Oregon at the time told my father that, but he said for political reasons
<6> it might corrct some of your myths :)
<1> employees i meant
<2> CA: I think there should be ***essment, but it's hard to say how that would be done, and how retention would be maximized in a field already suffering from high turnover.
<7> he cant act on it or else its political suicide, especially for a democrat.
<1> CryArvach, myth
<5> The Robber Barons were not much better in some ways...
<1> tenure is rarely achieved before 7 uyrs now
<5> the ground people under their boots...
<2> panini: I'll look for it. brb
<1> and the unions did nothing to protect me when i got laid off illegally
<4> paternalistic management is usually an illusion ..... market forces hit them too
<7> Robber Barrons were not great neither were monarchs but they helped put their nations on the map.
<5> but one of them is responsible for our public Library system
<7> And standard Oil helped make America a leader in oil production.
<7> But mations mature economically and things change..
<5> But they needed to be busted
<4> a large company may even believe that they "care" for workers but in the end, if the product doesn't sell, you are probably gone
<8> whats the word on idlers in here
<5> lol
<1> ca state aw requires school dists to deliver pink slips by the end of march if i recall correctly
<5> they do not give a **** about the workers...
<4> many companies sell that idea
<1> prob, we don't bother the hands of the devil
<5> School Districts give out pinko slips
<7> Thats why in new markets where people barely eat, sweatshops can be good for awhile, and then the people get more money they transform into a economy with more for labor and so on.
<9> best to have your own business
<1> i was laid off in late may and my union did nothing to represent me
<5> why not Linus?
<1> because a tenured teacher wanted his old job back, the position i occupied
<7> People complain about sweatshops or places they call sweatshops which are really just low wage ***embly lines or factories, and they dont realize without this work they have child prostitution and white slavery and they sell children to survive.
<7> Thailand has been an example of that for decades.
<1> because they aren't so powerful to be willing to go to bat for someone no longer paying dues
<7> Had/had? I dont know their current disposition.
<5> that tenure **** was brought about by the frigging unions in the first place
<1> my point being that teachers unions power to protect teaching jobs isn't what you claim it to be
<7> But fat white european men (And American) went to thailand to **** 11 year old gils.
<9> start your own magnet school
<4> yeah a union generally cannot prevent a layoff
<7> girls.
<5> it sure as hell is
<10> Linus sure it is. They represented him, not you.
<1> an illegal layoff?
<5> an attempt to remove an incompetent teacher in the CCSD took a year...
<7> Linus, without Tenure you would not have been layed off.
<4> which layoffs are illegal ?
<5> due to the Union running interference
<7> Tenure is grossly abused.
<7> Morning Comet!
<1> ones delviered after state mandated date
<10> morning FreeTrade :)
<1> delivered
<4> diff. states have different laws on that
<9> Just start your own magnet school, you'll get lot of parents that will pull their kids out of public school for free private school at magnets paid for by the state
<10> lol
<0> there was a company here where the employees were union and went on strike
<0> they hired all new employees
<1> FreeTrade, yes the other teacher did enjoy tenure under the old way of doing things
<0> hah
<7> Unions used to see people layed off though and if the union boss liked the person would send him back to the same company he was laid off or fired from the next day.
<0> rotorex
<1> today, tenure is really tough to get before 7 yrsd
<1> years
<4> I know CT has a law which says, for a layoff over a certain # of employees, you have to give warning time
<7> partly so unions could say, See how powerful I am, Dont **** with me.
<5> brb
<10> Linus the union is doing fine .. it represented the old ways .. which is what unions do.
<4> which effectively lengthens your severance pay, although it's called "warning pay" or something
<7> And 2ndly to give the guy who buys him a bottle of Jim Beam every christmas work.
<7> But thats changed.
<4> they can make you come in to work during that time, but may choose not to
<1> it could have represented the both of us, seeking a re***ignmetn for me
<7> its one of many reasons unions have died.
<1> i could have been given priority over outside interviewees
<10> Unions are not about being fair and just, as they claim. It is all about establishing a privileged cl*** of employees.
<0> the only problem i see with unions is they use the dues for stupid **** rather than for working for workers rights
<1> they laid me off almost 2 months past what state laws allow
<10> don't' worry linus .. once you make it into that privileged cl*** .. you are gonna love the union again.
<4> Linus-- you know how I view it ? If I have to fight to hang on at a company, they are not on the rightpart of the growth curve for my best interests
<4> at that point I've found it better to move on
<0> some people dont have that choice
<1> the law being put in place to allow laid off teachers a chance to compete for work in other districts, which usually hire in march-april
<4> they have trouble with money coming in, raises are going to be a bitch, etc...... I'll go elsewhere
<11> privilege is a function of merit, to a great degree, so there's nothing inherently wrong with establishing such a cl***.
<1> CometBaby, ive no plans to return to public schools atm
<11> or at least not a lack of merit which would result in being fired in the 7-yr time limit.
<7> Magnet schools are an improvement over traditional public schools or they can be. My daughter refused yesterday to partake of a stupid mentors event in her cl***, the teacher told her to participate, she said no. He said Ill have to send you to some place, I think independent study room or something, and she said, Ok fine, send me there.
<11> I do.
<10> Linus .. have you ever worked a job that was not union or govt?
<1> though the fact that public teachers don't pay into SS is a lure!
<7> The teacher went out in the hall and said, You really arent as mature as you think you are. My daughter said, Thats your opinion.
<1> plenty, most of my career
<7> Problem is schools at high school leverl are like kindergartens these days.
<2> I have.
<1> in fact, ive worked 4 years out of 24 within a union
<12> I agree, high school teachers are horrible
<4> Linus--: I'd go for private schools
<4> seriously
<2> FT : often, yes. Except the kindergartners in question may be 200+ lbs and 6'2"
<1> i am already teaching in catholic school
<4> unless of course some other good opportunity arose
<1> but the retirment benefits ****
<1> non-existent practically
<1> and theres still no merit pay, and every year you can be let go for NO reason
<2> I know a vice-principal at a big Catholic school in the Philly burbs
<7> And they dont teach academics enough and thats what my daughter complains about, she gets straight As in academic courses like math and most her other cl***es, this one teacher though has more interest in teaching his studeents his political views than he does teaching true English. My daughter told me She would like to learn about grammar and other subjectss normally taught in English but its all about the teacher, his ego and h
<4> for example, in the NYC area, teachers in Westchester county generally make more than in the city
<2> Linus: that ****s
<1> unlike other jobs, which require some reason after a probationary period
<7> Every ***ignment is turned into a social commentary against conservatives to the point that even the liberal students dont like him.
<2> FT: what kind of politics?
<1> state labor laws don't impact religious entities
<2> well, that teacher's curriculum needs be addressed by the parents, then
<4> NYC was having a hard time keeping teachers a few yeara back, they all went to westchester... less bull****, more money
<4> kids behaved better
<12> HONOLULU A U.S. Navy ship at sea successfully shot down a target test missile in its last few seconds of flight, the military said on Wednesday.
<1> i basically have noone to trun to if i had a beef about my boss, eg
<7> The black kids in some ways are so smart because they know its bull**** instinctively and they just laugh the teacher off and argue with him a lot.
<7> Timur, Anti war, Anti Reagan, Anti Bush, Anti Nancy Reagan the other day..
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