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Comments:
<0> Pickle: I agree that Iran's nuclear capabilities need to be curtailed. I believe that if a strong international coalition of the willing comes the conclusion that Iran is about to bring nuclear weaponry to an operational state, then pre-emptive military action must be taken at once.
<1> Jett: I refer to the situation like that...cause my age
<2> Libertine: Yeah. Sure. Iran has already spent nearly twenty years covertly developing nuclear weapons. The time is past for questioning whether or not their intentions are pure. They aren't. And they aren't going to get the bomb.
<1> and because it helps others understand
<1> simplicity is good
<3> Machiavelli. Helps if I can spell his name right ;)
<4> FreeTrade: you can hold that position if you like; but you risk acting when you shouldn't and becoming a Tyranical power.
<1> heh
<5> Pub, yes, it's priceless, actually.
<2> The fanatics will have their nuclear program destroyed.
<0> We must prevent Iran from having operational nuclear bombs.
<3> Libertine, Of course thats the point, I can hold the position I deem noble. and I deem mine to be noble.
<5> clarity, as it were
<6> BTW: did anyone see a followup to the report that Iran was found to have weapons-grade plutonium? [ albeit traces ]
<7> e-Hernick: And one will, shortly after Bush leaves office. He is at this point the greatest impediment to building such a coalition, due to the level of personal hate the Europeans have for him.
<4> sigh.. it's like a rabble mob in here.
<1> Jett: better said
<5> same thing
<6> libertine: nice ad hominem
<7> Bush is to the Europeans what DeGaulle was to America.
<1> Libertien; ther freemarket will make my pocket fatter...and nothing else matters!!!
<4> FreeTrade: you do acknowledge the risks I outlined are the pitfalls of your noble position though :)
<3> America with its desire for peace which is true desire, if it takes bombs to get us there and to prevent mad tyrannical governments like Iran from getting nukes them we should preempt.
<1> heh
<8> Israel has recently taken delivery from the US of some 5,000 "smart air launched weapons" including some 500 BLU 109 'bunker-buster bombs. The (uranium coated) munitions are said to be more than "adequate to address the full range of Iranian targets, with the possible exception of the buried facility at Natanz, which may require the [more powerful] BLU-113 bunker buster ":
<8> "Given Israel's already substantial holdings of such weapons, this increase in its inventory would allow a sustained ***ault with or without further US involvement."
<3> We have the power, that gives us the right, machiavelli tells me.
<0> Pickle: I am an optimist, and I still hope that Iran might decide, on its own, against bringing nuclear weapons to operational status.
<3> We have the power to defend ourselves, Libertarianism tells me.
<1> ;p
<5> rw, amen
<3> And we have the right to protect US interest globally, the Republican in me tells me.
<4> Lupine: ad homine yes; fallacy of logic; no :) as my insult was not used as a justification for my argument.
<6> Freetrade: i think it is our moral obligation as the worlds superpower, to prevent Iran from engaging in a nuclear holocaust on isreal.
<4> hominem, typo
<5> heh
<7> e-Hernick: I doubt that. The only hope is that the latest student uprising will evolve into something that brings down the nutbars.
<1> Pickle; LOLOL
<3> Evening Jett, Good to see you more often these days..
<1> yah
<9> I think it is our MORAL obligation as the worlds superpower to accept the Armenian Genocide, not to ignore it.. due to Turkey being an ally..
<5> rw, it's great being here, of course ;)
<9> what do you think Lupine?
<3> I dont know if its me not being here at night most the time or you stayed away for awhile but its always great having you around the channel.
<3> Cool!
<1> President George W. Bush today announced that he has named Karl Zinsmeister to be ***istant to the President for Domestic Policy
<5> rw ;)
<1> http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060524.html
<5> thanks, bud
<1> who is this?
<3> Lupine on israel and on anyone else.
<5> it's the best place
<7> jeev: And the ***yrian genocide
<9> sure..
<5> a channel's a sculptor's product, rw
<0> Pickle: Student uprisings are one possibility, however remote. Another possibility is that the Supreme Leader of Iran will realize that the second he is about to have the bomb, his country and his rule will come under serious attack, and he will act to preserve his power and his people.
<7> And the Genocide of just about everyone else the Mongolians could get their hands on.
<6> Jeev: the situations are not comparable. you are talking about something that happened almost a century ago.. with the people long dead.
<3> The point is in the countries which have nuclear bombs the genie is out of the bottle though its not to late to deal with North Korea. As for nations with the genie in the bottle we need to keep the genie in the bottle whenever we can.
<3> in Iran we can.
<0> Let us remember that Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad is only a puppet without real power, and that he is a mouthpiece of the Supreme Leader.
<1> lol
<1> damn airbases
<9> Moral Obligation.
<10> BTW, how many people know that Canada had nuclear weapons during the cold war ?
<3> The idea that everyone has a right to a Nuclear bomb is admitting that its worth the risk in fact the propability perhaps inevitability of having nuclear wars.
<9> happened a century ago, happening now, you mentioned Moral Obligation.
<0> ooa: Of course it did. The BOMARC system involved many nuclear sites in Canada.
<3> And I say its never justified to have nuclear wars so we can not allow other countries to weaponize nukes.
<6> jeev: the moral obligation is to first *stop* a genocide from happening
<3> In fact if people want a world government thats fine, as long as the USA is in charge.
<1> http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060524-4.html <----- Fact Sheet: The Advanced Energy Initiative: Ensuring a Clean, Secure Energy Future
<9> the moral obligation is that the US has ignored past genocides for decades now.. because it risks alliance.
<6> ooa: and on the flip side, Canadian strategic defense was controlled from inside the US.
<4> dftpd: under MAD - the more nations with nukes; the less chance we have of nuclear war ;)
<7> The DEW line was great for bringing money up north.
<0> Lupine: As it should be. Canada should not have, and does not (I believe) desire to be sovereign over nuclear weapons
<5> christ, I think I must've listed to, "The Magic Touch" five times, it's getting late.
<2> No. The UN was founded to prevent genocide and war. It is a faliure of the idiot UN.
<6> e-hernick: not to mention that the defense goals of the two nations are identical.. and was more effective when coordinated.
<3> Think about it, yes I know thats sounds outragous, but if there was to be a supreme national power in the world who inevitably has both earned and proven the ability and the right to have that power. America will never again use a bomb, and we never used one offensively. in fact since 1812 we have had no designs on a foreign country for profit or conquest.
<8> Despite its overall weaknesses in relation to Israel and the US, Iran has an advanced air defense system, deployed to protect its nuclear sites; "they are dispersed and underground making potential air strikes difficult and without any guarantees of success." . It has upgraded its Shahab-3 missile, which can reach targets in Israel. Iran's armed forces have recently conducted high-profile military exercises in anticipation of a US led a
<0> Publius, O White House Representative, does President Bush want to ensure a Clean and Secure Energy Future for All Americans?
<7> I don't know if Canada had nukes, but they don't anymore and I for one would be against arming with nukes.
<0> Pickle: Canada did
<6> FT: *cough* spanish and american war of 1898
<4> dftpd: 1812? what about 1861?
<4> FreeTrade: 1812, what about 1861??
<3> And in 1812, Had the british not mettled it would be the united states and territories of North America instead of the USA ;)
<6> FT: we took the Philipines, Peurto Rico, Guam, Wake, etc
<2> And the same fools who insist it's bad that the United States act as the policemen whine and piss when the United States doesn't march off to Rwanda in short order.
<0> Pickle: However, those were part of an American system, and the ultimate launch authority was in the hands of the american military
<6> not to mention we annexed hawaii
<3> I am talking about offensive wars.
<7> Not that it really matters. In a nuclear war a large number of Soviet nukes would be sent this way due to our energy production capacity.
<11> praxis9 all comes with the job of being top dog
<3> Not defensive wars.
<6> Pickle: Canada at one point housed US nuclear missiles..
<7> Nukes or no nukes we'd have been hit.
<4> dftpd: the War Between the States was offensive.
<6> FT: well, I would say that was most definately an offensive war.
<6> The US has stationed nukes in many countries at one time or another.
<4> dftpd=freetrade.. stupid bitchx client
<12> FreeTrade: in 1812, the cannucks burned DC
<7> Halcion: Yeah--right after the yanks burned Toronto.
<0> Bow before the Might of Canada!
<3> Halcion our goal though was a united stated of america which included Canada.
<3> The burning of the capital was meaningless because there was nothing there.
<0> the Royal Canadian Mounted Police can crush everybody with impunity!
<3> The government had moved to philadelphia.. that was one advantage of not having a real established capital.
<3> and a small government.
<3> They burned a building down which in europe would of meant surrender of the nation but in the USA it meant nothing.
<3> It was a building not the government.
<0> Nowadays, the american governement is pretty much stuck in DC...
<3> Now it is.
<3> In 1812 it wasnt.
<0> The federal government has become quite the monstrosity
<3> I mean hell noone was there.
<12> ah well. i can't honestly say i miss not having canada
<7> Anyway, Canada has devolved to the point where a few scumbag "natives" can hold the cops and everyone else at bay.
<4> e-Hernick: looking for US version of Guy Fawkes?
<3> And even today total destruction of washington DC would not mean the end of the USA because we have so many military bases the military would have to ***ume command until a civilian government could be restablished.
<0> Pickle: what do you mean?
<6> Russian aerospace company Energia wants to double the number of Soyuz spacecraft it produces, according to Russian news agency RIA Novosti. The plan calls for foreign investors to fund the extra spacecraft, which would be used to allow six crew members to live on the International Space Station.
<7> e-Hernick: I mean what happened in Caledonia.
<0> FreeTrade: scary
<11> i had a canadian come into #hillary earlier and preach at me about what america needs
<6> "The company is going to turn space transportation into at least a quasi-commercial undertaking," says Logsdon, noting that the company is also trying to sell trips around the Moon aboard Soyuz spacecraft for $100 million.
<11> same old stuff ppl have been saying for 60 years
<12> aboot? aboot!
<11> WHATS ALL THIS ABOOT, EH
<5> Pickle, London's like that, but worse.
<3> But I have a serious Idea which would greatly improve government, State reps and congressmen would stay in districts, say 12 or so. And there would be a secure encrypted virtual Congress which was no longer centered in DC except the white house for entertaining foreign digataries and occ***ional meetings of the full congress in person to shake hands and all.
<7> The rebel indians at Caledonia should have been taught a history lesson, specifically, one about a guy named Almighty Voice.
<0> Pickle: would you say that the Caledonia situation is similar to the Oka situation of years past?
<3> But it would be a very mobile and virtual government which woudl be very clost to the people and not the lobbyists nor the washinton press establishment.
<12> i like that idea FT
<7> e-Hernick: Similar, I suppose.
<4> dftpd: there is nothing we couldnt fix with congress that a new ratio of 1 congressman per 10,000 people wouldn't fix.
<12> i liek that idea a lot actually
<11> congress should go back to the old times.. all volunteer, meet once a month
<0> Pickle: I would say that those are fairly isolated incidents, not representative of the political climate of Canada as a whole
<4> as if anyone in this channel can even MEET their congressman.. why should they? what is the ratio just shy of 1 per million?
<11> no need for professional politicians
<7> e-Hernick: But I don't think that even as recently as Oka, the indians would have been allowed to get away with holding an entire town hostage by cutting off their power.
<13>
<3> Halcion, I honestly think it makes a lot of sense in this era. When you had super secret meetings they could fly to a secret meeting place which could be random, like say the select senate sommittee on intelligence, or other top secret representaitives in congress.
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