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Comments:
<0> Glock21: The justifications for the invasion of Iraq, were *the exact same* as are always used, including with Hitlr.
<1> if the iraqis wanted to americans to invade that badly dont you think wed hear about it in the media seeing as their mission is to make this way look like a good idea?
<0> Hitler.
<2> Armon... bull****
<1> way = war
<2> We were enforcing a ceasefire agreement
<1> still drinking coffeee
<2> Ceasefire
<3> Culturally its deep in the american psyche that we are not a nation interested in abuse of power.
<2> Agreement
<0> "They're the bad guys, if you don't agree you're against the country, we have to strike them before they strike us first... and of course, we're liberating them"
<0> It's all the same ****.
<2> enforcing ceasefire agreements is NOT NAZISM
<3> Look, Germans were all german.
<0> FreeTrade: So you tend to not reconignize it, when that just so happens to be the case, rarely as it is.
<1> now theyre 50% arab
<3> And i hate to say this but i think some cultures that are monolithic tend to step in line.
<4> ARmon: are you talking about Saddam or anti-bush protesters? :-P
<0> FreeTrade: In other words, the mere *possibility* of abusing power... isn't there.
<0> Glock21: The *United Nations* were supposed to handle that.
<3> America is so multi cultural even within the euro-american population you would never have unanymity of opinion on any issue
<0> Glock21: And when the US wants to go to war, it should ask the international community's permission, not because you're slaves, but because WE CAN DESTROY THE PLANET, if we don't chill when we possibly can.
<3> and most republicans would be out in front if we ever abused our military power.
<5> I don't think Sadams crimes in '91 warented an all out "shock & Awe.." inv***ion. They have world tribunals for stuff like that..
<2> Armon... oh nonsense.
<1> yeah right
<3> And most americans would quickly react and stop it.
<3> this is proven through our history
<6> United Nations cannot be held to enforce any of the resolutions it p***es because its impotent to do that.
<7> Armon, please, the international community doesn't have the guts to go to war.
<1> bush got away with a lot of crap and poor ollie north took the fall
<0> TheTailor: It's called "experience".
<0> TheTailor: War, is a final solution.
<0> *All* other methods are to be tried first.
<7> Armon, and you don't have it.
<0> Not some, not most, *all*.
<0> TheTailor: Iceland? We were ****ed in the *** by the Norwegians and Danish for centuries.
<3> America is a p***ivist nation which is the most powerful in the world so that we have no choice to be the defender of the oppressed and the enemy of tyrants who abuse their power to an extreme.
<0> If there's one thing we know, it's foreign rule.
<2> We aren't trying to make Iraq part of the Fatherland ffs... this has absolutely NOTHING to do with NAZISM
<2> Period.
<3> We should of gone to war with the Taliban before 911
<7> Armon, all other methods should be tried first, even if people in Saddams domain are being murdered by the 100's of 1000's?
<3> I was for it
<3> I was in the minority
<0> Glock21: What an argument! YES IT DOES! How's that for a comeback?
<0> TheTailor: Unless the United Nations approve of it as it did in Serbia? YES.
<2> The nazi expansionist view was my point, bub.
<1> freetrade i agree you should of gone to war before 911 but i dont think calling america pacisivist is 100% truthful
<0> TheTailor: It is necessary for history not to repeat itself.
<1> you cant have it both ways
<3> I knew about the suffering and the murder of afghans on a regular basis for things such as their burqa showed off their ankle.
<6> The United Nations didn't approve Serbian action...NATO did though
<0> People are starting to forget that a world war is not just an illusion. It is a very real possibility.
<2> That isn't our aim... the rationale is completely different.
<7> Armon, WE took care of that.
<6> And international organizations cannot be the end-all, be-all determinant of US sovereignty.
<1> i dont think its the role of any one nation to be the world police
<0> And that the US can't be responsible for it for some magic, supernatural reason, is just... well, blind faith at best.
<1> the problem is the UN not doing their damn jobs
<0> Exdeath: Oh, right. :) Sorry.
<2> The reasons are different, the justification is actually there, and the goals and actual action are completely different.
<0> TheTailor: What is it with Americans and thinking that whenever they go for combat, they do it alone?
<3> And the destruction of ancient historical atifacts which the world owned. because ot its common value the huge careved stone of Buddha which was very ancient.
<2> You are just desperately trying to make repubs out to be nazis for cheap ad hominem and it is getting old.
<6> They've never "gone it alone" since the Spanish-American war.
<0> TheTailor: Sure, you were the primary force, that's not because the US government is so warm-hearted, but because you have the greatest military in the world.
<7> Armon, hey, step in and solve the terrorism issue and we'll step aside, no problem. Oh wait, there is ONE problem, YOU won't step in.
<3> I believe the world has an interest in artifacts which are part of our common history.
<0> TheTailor: Do you honestly still believe that the invasion of Iraq had *anything* to do with terrorism, *whatsoever*?
<3> And to allow a bunch of religious zealots to abuse women and artifacts that way is unacceptable, I wanted to go to war long before Bush did.
<0> TheTailor: Note you that I don't oppose the war in Afghanistan, for example, as that was legal and justified.
<3> Armon, Legal ?
<7> Armon, you will just have to get used to one simple fact, WE, the USA will take the actions needed to keep ourselves safe, and you will benifit on the sidelines.
<3> By who ?
<3> The UN never said it was legal
<3> or voted on it
<6> War is legal in the United States through the guidelines Articles 1 and 2 of the Constitution say it is.
<3> They did say it was legal to use force on iraq and voted on it.
<3> affirmatively
<0> FreeTrade: They think the same way about us, that making women work is like child slavery. I mean, I disagree, but I would argue on their side that it didn't justify war. And it doesn't. And the exact same argument shouldn't justify war just because it's us starting the war.
<0> (And by us I mean *us*, Iceland supported the war, officially.)
<6> And that is that the Congress has the sole right of declaring war, and the President acts as the commander-in-chief and commit troops throughout the world.
<3> Armon, Maybe in your country, we dont women work here.
<8> Armon: got something for you to read.
<3> we dont even make men work.
<1> NATO chose to act in aghanistan which is good enough for me
<0> TheTailor: If that means sacrificing innocent people elsewhere, to hell with that!
<0> FreeTrade: ;) Hehehehe.
<1> as long as its some sort of alliance and not just one cowboy army
<7> Armon, how about if they cut off the legs of children and force them to work, should we sanction those countries that do that?
<0> FreeTrade: You should see how well we keep our losers fed.
<3> We have liberty to work or not and wear a thong or a jeans to the beach (Most beaches)
<8> Armon: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/06/04/nyt.friedman
<1> of course for a while there the american troops and the nato troops were operating imdependantly which was stupid
<1> but i think thye fixed that
<3> Hashbar Nato decided to act in afghanistan after we won the war.
<0> TheTailor: No, we should put that under the United Nations Security Council, and they will, as they have under those circumstances (when the US has bothered to *prove* something, you know that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing)...
<0> ...and the UN will respond.
<0> As it has on numerous occations. Sometimes it's not feasible, and that'll just have to be like that.
<6> The UN has never and will never respond to blatant breechings of its resolutions.
<0> Primary object #1: PREVENT, ANOTHER, WORLD, WAR!
<0> Primary object #2: Secure democracy and freedom.
<3> You know the UN is acting in Iraq now and I believe Nato is too
<3> But not before we established democracy
<0> FreeTrade: Yeah, for reconstruction, and I endorse that.
<5> Lest We Forget..
<6> The only time the UN has advocated military action to solve a war problem was during the Korean war, and that was because the Soviet representative was not there to veto it.
<2> Exdeath... yeah and that worked out great... still at war over half a century later.
<2> w00
<2> go UN!
<6> otherwise totalitarians are free to do as they choose while millions suffer and die, much like in Cambodia, Sudan, Congo, Rwanda, etc
<3> we have emb***ies open in the New Iraq, Egypt and Other arab nations opened emb***ies, most the ones which are not yet open are due to fear of the insurgents and followers of al queda.
<3> Diplomats dont want to die any more than you or I do.
<6> Word Glock :/
<0> Well, the UN and NATO, or whatever.
<3> Look, Unlike a lot of republicans, Well A minority of republicans but sizeable, I support the UN.
<3> I do not support the UN as is.
<0> At least with the slightest respect for the international community. YOU'RE NOT ALONE ON THIS PLANET, God damnit!
<0> FreeTrade: Hell, a lot of things need fixing..
<3> But I support the UN as being a more reasonable, less corrupt institution for nations to attempt to work out differences BEFORE war becomes inevitable
<8> Armon: we know, it's just that everyone else is too involved with petty bickering to be that effective
<0> ...but it sure as **** ain't gonna be fixed when *some* countries just keep breaking the rules whenever they really really feel like it.
<2> hahahaha
<0> Timur: Everyone else has had to deal with a military invasion on home ground.
<2> The UN breaks its own rules ffs.
<3> I think the UN needs to be cleaned up, Downsized, and audited constantly for use of money.
<2> Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
<8> Armon: right, so there you go.
<0> Timur: France knows what it's like to be occupied. So does Germany. That's why they oppose the war until *everything* else has been tried first.
<6> I would say a majority too, in fact I believe a majority are too politically correct about accepting the UN...there are gr***roots movements to advocate withdrawing from the UN, but not in Washington-insider DC Republican culture.
<3> But I support it for the fundamental reasons of a last resort arena to try to avoid war
<3> Anyone in here for the abolition of the UN ?
<3> I am curious of the numbers.
<6> The United States knows what its like to be occupied too, much like in the War of 1812, the US Revolution, the War Among the States, and the Mexican-American War.
<2> Not I
<3> Maybe in this channel no one is.
<5> The UN will never work as long as any one nation is above or directly influencing it's decisions..
<3> But I bet Glock shares my concerns.
<3> Right Glock ?
<0> Well, it's easy to say that the UN doesn't work when the US simply ignores its conclusions.
<1> heh the war of 1812 we owned fort detroit bitch
<0> OF COURSE it doesn't work if the US doesn't want to play ball.
<6> FreeTrade, I'm not necessarily for the abolition of the UN, but I am for the US withdrawal of it.
<3> Right now its a bumbling non working bureacracy
<8> Armon: that's a vast oversimplification, especially considering they can claim such while also conveniently knowing they 1. won't have to do anything and thus can claim moral high ground (as they would deem it) while knowing 2. the US will do the real work from which 3. the French Germans etc actually benefit.
<3> it has to be cleaned up.
<9> afternoon
<6> I just think its too vastly corruptable and unwilling to enforce what it supposedly deems important in its resolutions.
<9> any news on a canadian coalition?
<2> The UN will probably always be a mess... too many conflicting interests... but it's nice having a forum to deal with it in front of everybody to avert any unnecessary wars.
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