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Comments:
<bmc> there is no freedom from religion
<suna> yes
<suna> it does
<suna> they're both scientific
<suna> again, go take courses
<Ryan89> baaba: its selfish for them and bad for the kid
<baaba> Ryan89: no it's not bad for the kid
<baaba> empirical studies show it's not
<suna> ask professors. I don't have all the specifics memorized, my major is astrophysics:P
<baaba> you don't believe in those?
<Ryan89> suna: you look defeated when you resort to name calling. just to let you know
<suna> Ryan: really, let's ask this channel
<suna> who thinks ryan89 has 'won' a debate today?
<Ryan89> baaba: no i dont believe in "studies" that tell me two homo***uals raise a kid just as good
<suna> thank you.
<baaba> Ryan89: why not?
<Libertine> Ryan has probaly won a free t-shirt from sean hannity.
<Ryan89> suna: most of the people in here are liberal
<bmc> i dont think its possible to win a debate unless your statements have affected others
<Libertine> Ryan89: libertarian, actually.
<suna> NO THEY ARN'T
<bmc> thats the purpose of a debate
<suna> this is a primarily right wing channel
<suna> !
<bmc> to get your point across
<Publius> suna: *smack*
<suna> everybody here loves bush's nuts
<Ryan89> "libertarian" just means your afraid to stake a real position
<bmc> if that doesnt happen no matter how "good" you did, you didnt win
<Libertine> Ryan89: are you nuts?
<baaba> bmc: i often find it is also to clarify one's own
<suna> this channel is at least 80% conservative
<suna> they're just not stupid like you
<baaba> to oneself
<suna> they support the first amendment
<Ryan89> libertarians are a waste of votes
<suna> and they believe in evidence (for the most part)
<Ryan89> you say i dont support the 1st amendment?
<Libertine> Ryan89: hows this for real positions; limited government, reduced spending, increased personal freedom, simplified tax code, and FREE TRAD.
<Libertine> TRADE.
<suna> <Ryan89> baaba: no i dont believe in "studies" that tell me two homo***uals raise a kid just as good
<Libertine> Ryan89: not real enough for ya, bub?
<suna> that's the problem with religious psychos like you
<Ryan89> suna: yeah and?
<suna> belief is a nonissue
<suna> it is EVIDENCE
<Halcion> Libertine: that actually sounds like traditional conservatism
<Ryan89> it is for me
<Ryan89> i have faith
<Libertine> Halcion: funny that.
<MudFlip> suna: can you point me to this "Study" ?
<suna> ryan...thee studies happened. The results are conclusive
<Libertine> Halcion: its almost like modern conservatives have abandoned their values...
<Libertine> oh right; they did.
<Ryan89> libertine: easy positions. take on something challenging
<baaba> Ryan89: why do you not believe in those studies?
<Halcion> indeed
<bmc> three studies is conclusive?
<suna> Mudflip: google, I don't know any off hand
<bmc> come on now...
<suna> there are a lot though
<Ryan89> the bible isnt a "study" its the word of God
<Libertine> Ryan89: what the hell do you consider challenging?
<MudFlip> I do not believe in such studies either.
<suna> ryan: saying you don't believe in those studies is saying you don't think they exist. Next he'll say he doesn't believe in black people
<baaba> Ryan89: you must acknowledge that the bible was written and rewritten by men over centuries, right?
<suna> or he doen't believe in homo***uals
<Ryan89> libertine: what im debating now. something people feel p***ionately about. i.e. abortion, gay marriage, religion
<suna> they just arn't there!
<Ryan89> baaba: yeah i know it was
<baaba> Ryan89: so why regard it as absolute?
<Halcion> Ryan89: we're talking about a religion that used to sacrifice goats and sheep
<Ryan89> im not agains homo***uals. just homo***uality
<suna> you also must acknowelge that the bible is a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a language that nobody speeks anymore?
<Libertine> Ryan89: if you think gay marriage is more important then federal power, spending, tax code, and trade.. then you really are a politically stupid man.
<baaba> Ryan89: i'm sure lots of those people changed it because of their personal agendas
<bmc> abortion should be illegal in most cases
<Ryan89> homo***uals are people. people are all sinners in some way
<suna> you must also acknowelge that the translations are far from perfect
<bmc> gay marriage not allowed
<bmc> get a civil union
<baaba> Ryan89: not caring for the true intents of christianity, and thus distorting the message
<Libertine> god.. ryan thinks gay marriage > federal spending...
<MudFlip> Successful society depends on gender roles. I do not want to raise a boy that denies his role as male protector of family, society and country.
<Libertine> this is nuts.
<Publius> baaba: is the er old testament/tora one fo the first ever history books?
<baaba> Ryan89: that's possible right?
<bmc> the minority does not have the right to change something for the majority when the minorities rights arent being infringed
<Ryan89> libertine: i didnt say it was better. just more difficult to debate
<suna> ryan doesn't want gays to have civil rights
<suna> that's basically what it is
<Ryan89> civil rights?
<suna> you don't want them to have civil unions
<Ryan89> its not a civil right to corrupt children
<bmc> civil rights are different than inalienable rights
<suna> ryan: gays can adopt children without civil unions
<baaba> Ryan89: how does this corruption occur?
<suna> it happens all over the country
<Ryan89> i dont consider adoption a "right"
<Libertine> Ryan89: the libertarian position on gay marriage is we do not see where the constitution provides for the federal government to make any law on marriage.
<baaba> Ryan89: can you SHOW me this corruption?
<Libertine> Ryan89: end of story.
<Ryan89> libertine: sounds like a copout
<suna> hom***ual adoption is not part of the civil union debate ryan
<suna> period
<suna> so tell me
<Halcion> Ryan89: you're speaking from a limited perspective. you have never been gay.
<MudFlip> Libertine: i agree with that..what about the states?
<suna> are you against civil unions?
<Libertine> Ryan89: not at all; if people want to vote for an ammendment; they can.
<baaba> Ryan89: because with an iq of 150 you'd think you understood that just saying something happens isn't enough
<Ryan89> suna; yeah it is. they just dont want you to know thats the real agenda
<baaba> when talking about a real world event
<Ryan89> its not about insurance
<Halcion> Ryan89: what would you do if your son turned out gay?
<Ryan89> its not about tax help
<suna> omg ryan
<suna> so
<Ryan89> its about kids
<baaba> if you're talking about divine matters then you don't really have anything else to go on but faith
<suna> forget the the kids
<suna> do you agree with civil unions
<suna> if adoption was'nt part of it
<suna> ?
<Libertine> Ryan89: as a Libertarian we do not see how making different cl***es of citizens in this nation is going to promote freedom.
<Ryan89> if my son turned out gay id love him anyways
<bmc> Ryan89 a court just ruled a law making it illegal for gays to adopt is unconstitutional
<suna> yes or no kid, end of the line
<baaba> but in real world events you need to show things to be true
<suna> do you support civil liberties or not?
<Ryan89> i support civil liberties
<MudFlip> bmc: what court?
<suna> do you support homo***ual civil unions if adoption had nothing to do with it
<suna> everything else remains
<baaba> so Ryan89 i ask again, show me this corruption gay couples impose on their adopted children
<suna> no adoption
<suna> yes or no?
<bmc> it was just on tv yesterday and the day before
<bmc> :P
<bmc> you didnt hear it?
<baaba> Ryan89: show me its effects
<Libertine> Ryan89: no, you don't support civil liberties; at least not for everyone.
<Ryan89> suna: it does though
<suna> IF IT DIDONT
<Ryan89> you cand divest the two
<MudFlip> no...gotta look that up
<baaba> Ryan89: and show me where it happens
<suna> damn this guy REALLY has an iq of 150
<Ryan89> but its the only reason they want civil unions
<suna> pretnd time ryan
<suna> you're rligious, you should know how easy ti is to pretend
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