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Comments:
<0> all poodles are dogs, not all dogs are poodles
<1> bethor: do you think all poor ignorant people are incompetent and shouldn't be allowed to have credit cards?
<2> janet, the companies
<3> no bethor..it is YOURS
<2> im the fool that doesnt read fine print. how about a world were we dont have to?
<3> you are old enough to read
<1> Kobushi: if you cause harm to someone it is illegal ... since not all greedy causes harm, it is not the greed that causes harm, it is the crossing over the line
<0> OcDoc not all harm is illegal
<1> KoBushi: of course it is
<4> http://www.bistudio.com/games/aa/ArmA_Progress_05.jpg
<0> OcDoc no, it isn't greed if it didn't cause harm
<5> Well, Disclosure is important. IN most major transactions the fine print has to be explained clearly to you for it to be a lawful transaction.
<1> if you harm me, I can take you to court and prove it and get redress
<2> ocdoc if the credit exists because those poeple do not read the fine print, then something is wrong
<1> bethor: that's impossible
<5> As a realtor I must explain any part of the contract which could impact my clients.
<6> Herzen: oh no! your tanks are biting it!
<2> the credit card company exists, i mean
<0> OcDoc not all harm is so cut and dry... futher not all harm is directly to invadiduals, but could be to society in general, or etc
<1> KOBushi: you're talking in circles now
<0> OcDoc because you aren't listening :)
<0> OcDoc harm is part of how I DEFINE greed
<3> bethor.. you are an adult and responsible for your own actions, if you do not read the fine print it is YOUR fault
<5> As a contractor I am under ethical laws to print important information in 12 point type.
<3> no one should have to hold your hand
<0> OcDoc but you keep ignoring that and asking how wanting more money causes harm
<1> Kobushi: you said it yourself ... if it doesn't cause harm it's not greed
<2> Janet, I disagree. Im am not talking about the legality of it
<1> first you have to prove it caused harm
<0> OcDoc exactly! axiomaticlly
<3> bethor.. even morally YOU are responsible for YOURSELF
<3> no one should have to be responible for what YOU do
<5> Janet, its not always holding hands, its dealing with people ifnorant of specific matters which the buisness is expert in.
<1> Janet: it gets down to ethics vs law
<7> so would hiring illegals be ethical?
<2> janet you are wrong, that is not my point
<0> greed causes harm by way of axiom; because greed is the aquisition/desire to aquite material/monetary wealth thru the harm of others.
<3> FT.. they you take it to an attorney
<5> A financial instrument providor has to get the user to sign off that they understand the contract in about 40 places.
<2> mypoint is that I shoudlnt have too read it
<3> bethor, no you are wrong
<1> it may be unethical to take advantage of an ignorant person but it may not be illegal
<0> aquite->aquire
<2> because even if I dont, they shouldnt screw me over
<3> bethor, again YOUR problem
<5> And the duty of the lender in this case is to make sure you understand everyting, the duty of the user of financial services is to ask the questions.
<2> what does that mean janet?
<1> KoBushi: well, that's a tautology, which means you're talking in circle
<1> Ko
<2> its my problem so thats ok?
<5> Dont feel bad asking why is APR vs The stated interest rate ?
<3> be an adult and take responsibilty in things you act one and do
<5> why = what
<0> OcDoc no it's not, it's just a definition
<1> I can define the sky as the green stuff under my feet but it doesn't make it so
<1> Kobushi: it's a WRONG definition
<0> OcDoc if I shoot you in order to get your shoes, that's greed
<5> This type of legislation doesnt really hurt honest buisness, and it costs little.
<1> Kobushi: wrong
<2> In fact, they have laws about "fine print" here in japan
<4> IamKing, the new Flashpoint, Armed ***ault looks pretty bad***
<8> nah, his shoes ****
<4> I'm excited
<2> whch are different than US
<0> OcDoc if it is wrong, then greed has no meaning at all :)
<1> Kobushi: if you shoot me to get my shoes it's robbery, ***ault and battery
<0> if shooting someone for a pair of shoes isn't greed, then nothing is
<5> Disclosure is the thing I support the most in the relationship of government regulation and business.
<3> bethor.. so you are depending on the goverment to protect you, instead of protecting yourself
<0> OcDoc yes, all of the above, AND greed
<2> janet EXACTLY what a concept eh?
<1> KoBushi: it has another meaning ... greed means wanting too much IN MY OPINION
<0> OcDoc but there is no "wanting too much" until it causes harm... unless it causes harm it can't be "too much"
<1> Kobushi: of course there is other wanting too much
<0> how?
<3> greed, to me is demanding that you are given what you do not work for.. and you are greedy and jealous enough to want to take what you have not earned
<1> KoBushi: it might be my opinion that everyone should have the same amount of money, and that if you want more than that you are greedy
<2> janet what?
<5> Greed is a vice its not illegal.
<0> OcDoc but that would be incorrect :)
<1> Kobushi: in fact, that IS the definition of greedy
<9> janet: suppose it is a gift?
<2> i have not earned the trust of my goverment?
<1> Kobushi: nope
<3> peace.. a gift is totally different
<0> OcDoc such a definition maks "greed" useless
<9> ahh but see a gift would fit in here " and you are greedy and jealous enough to want to take what you have not earned"
<0> and is an utter waste of effort
<5> 40 people killed in moscow from freezing.
<9> if i was going to be a stickler
<1> KoBushi: it might mean that anyone who uses his intelligence to beat out competitors is greedy
<9> :)
<5> Worst freeze in I forget 40 years ?
<2> goverment should not protect me, but the evil corporation that loves fine prints? great
<5> So much for global warming.
<5> :)
<3> I am talking about those that want equality, and take from those that have worked and give to those that will not work, but they continue to want more and more and more
<1> KoBushi: okay, if you really think that, than I"m done discussing it with you
<3> and demand that the goverment take it from you to give it to them
<2> janet that is unrelated ot the ethics argument we were having
<3> bethor. thats greed
<2> the fact that I think I shouldt have to read and damn fine print
<3> we were not having and ethics argument, we were having a greed argument
<1> ah ... wife's awale .... so I'm done discussing it anyway
<0> OcDoc I really think that if "too much money" is defined by anything other than harm (to one's self or t others) then it makes the word greed meaningless entirely.
<8> get a magnifying gl***
<0> ocdoc okay later
<3> now if you want to have a ethics argument, thats different
<2> you are defending the fine print tactics to fool people, because its MY foult to not read it. that is ridiculous
<2> the world can be better than that. If fact, you dont have to read fine prints in japan. Because they ahve laws agains it
<3> I am saying that if you want to have an ethics argument it is different
<0> bethor I agree such uses of fine prin are unethical; they should just present the deal upfront.
<0> print*
<3> and if you want to deal with an ethical company you read the fine print to see what there ethics are
<5> Greed suggests meanness and the idea of p***ion that is controlling, not merely compelling.
<3> stop demanding that others take care of you
<0> rather than say "the deal is X for $10" then "Additional $1000 fee will apply " in fine print :)
<2> janet that makes no sense
<3> bethor.. yes it does
<0> JanetB wishing for others to behave ethically is demanding that others take care of you?
<3> why do you want others to take care of you
<2> what kobushi said
<3> KoBushi.. yes actually it is..
<0> JanetB .... how?
<2> janet, you have really low standars for this world hehe
<3> you want the goverment to make someone be ethical, and create laws, instead of reading the fine print, are you unable to read
<0> JanetB So then by extension, wishing for others to behave unethicaly is demanding to take care of yourself?
<2> yes janet, thats what i belive goverments are for. to protect me
<0> JanetB no one ever said anything about the government forcing the bahavior
<0> at least I didn't see it
<3> KoBushi.. bethor is
<2> no im not
<3> yes you are
<2> not!
<0> anyway...
<3> you are saying the goverment is there to protect you and take care of you an all manner of business
<0> WANTING for people and companis to behave ethically is not the sam as demanding that others take care of you.
<2> im saying there are laws here to protect poeple that "didnt read the fine print" and i think its great
<3> that is NOT the goverment's job
<0> Asking the government to enforce ethical treatment in all cases is a different matter.
<2> well the people of japan disagree with you, because that law was p***ed many years ago
<0> I personally don't trust the government to interprit ethics :)
<3> and those that did not read the fine print.. are not taking care of themselves, they are not looking out for themselves
<5> This is greed
<3> they are depending on the goverment to control the actions of others
<2> nah kobushi they don interpret, they just err in the favour of the person instead of the corporation
<5> Main Entry: greed
<5> Pronunciation: 'grEd
<5> Function: noun
<5> Etymology: back-formation from greedy
<5> : excessive or reprehensible acquisitiveness : AVARICE
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