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Comments:
<0> KoBushi: either way we're both gonna die
<1> Oc: no, it really isn't.
<2> you will stop them from using weapong to start a war, by staring a war... lovely
<0> Timur: what isn't?
<3> OcDoc well only if they have the means to enforce MAD
<4> Janet: so.. US = World Police?
<5> bethor.. no.. you do not have to have a war in odered for them to be stoped before they have them
<3> OcDoc but, if you attack prior to thier means to enforce MAD you win!
<3> ;)
<1> it's why there's a whole dept dedicated to nonproliferation. Development of nukes takes a significant amt of technology and infrastructure. Such development is not inevitable
<0> KoBushi: I think there is a moral imperative to not start wars that can be avoided
<6> without war there can be no societal evolution, without societal evolution there can be no society, hence without war there can be no society/civilization
<2> janet; how do you invade a country without war?
<5> antifed.. I think we can sure control the development of nukes in other countries
<0> KoBushi: depends on what the attack is
<3> OcDoc I agree; I was making my comments in a mocking way, I realize tone doesn't come acrost well on IRC
<3> </mocking>
<3> how's that? :)
<0> KOBushi: whom were you mocking?
<3> JanetB
<7> gas prices are about to rise dramatically
<6> without war, the world would soon degrade into rampant chaos and barbarism
<0> YYZ: false
<4> Janet: So, the US has the right to interfere with the internal affairs of any sovereign nation?
<5> ko?
<7> of course not
<3> was answering OcDoc's Q
<4> Janet: our sovereignty .. exceeds the sovereignty of any other nation?
<7> but we do anyways
<0> ah
<7> its about to be summer reformulation time
<1> anti: that's right.
<1> bravo
<7> and i bet you anything iran tied their strategy with that
<7> so gas prices are gonna shoot up
<0> the world was organized into blocs for mutual protection from the other blocs with MAD as the umbrella
<4> Timur: I hope that was sarcasm...
<5> antifed.. I belive that we can stop other countries from getting arms that will put other countries in jepordy, that is not interfering in internal affairs
<0> now the world isn't organized that way and we have to change our tactics to the changed conditions
<4> Janet: it's meddling :)
<1> anti: nope, it's reality
<1> welcome to it. :)
<5> but, you can get the UN to stop allowing the sale of these weapons
<5> after all, whats the UN for?
<1> heh
<1> exactly
<4> Timur: what you advocate is a threat to freedom.
<0> JanetB: to debate and give smaller nations a way to save face
<1> NATO might evolve into the force the US is forced to be
<8> what is the UN for?
<8> loaded question
<4> The UN? I do not support the UN.
<9> Would an EMP pulse kill batteries?
<1> anti: the freedom for radical regimes to obtain and develop nukes is not a freedom that's worth retaining.
<0> Peace: it's FOR whatever it can accomplish
<0> which so far has been mixed
<8> oc: again a loaded answer
<4> Timur: and you have the right to make that decision, of course ;)
<8> for it seems to accomplish very little
<0> arcade: no
<1> anti: no, the admin does.
<0> Peace: actually, it accomplishes a lot ... both good and bad
<10> antifed: the UN at the very least makes countries talk to each other
<9> OcDoc: Okay, why? :) I'm not certain on these things.
<1> and I fully support them in that regard.
<0> Peace: whether you agree with the goals or not
<11> OcDoc, mixed? What did the UNever solve?
<0> arcade: a strong enough pulse can fry electronics ... it cannot remove a charge from a battery
<0> TheTailor: I can't be specific ... they enhance communications, both scientific and political for one
<12> A strong enough EMP might make a battery melt... but that's about it.
<4> Timur: what admin?
<0> Tailor: we don't know how many crises have been averted by giving people a forum to discuss and save face
<1> anti: the US admin.
<0> Tailor: I can't prove a negative
<9> OcDoc: Hm, okay.
<1> any US admin would do same.
<13> oh boy do I hope Israel invades Iran over the nukes....
<10> yeah, let's get WWIII under way
<1> any other stance would be a gross neglect of world interest.
<11> OcDoc, I'm simply wondering what thye have ever done as a body to improve any situation.
<4> Timur: world or US interests?
<14> i hope france does something. they brought up the nuke word
<0> Ife: Israel can't invade anyone that far away
<1> anti: both. Sometimes they're actually the same thing in certain situations.
<0> Ife: they could launch a military strike, but not a sustained invasion
<1> anyway bbl.
<4> heh..
<4> bbl..
<13> lol yea even France maybe just maybe now that they are not being bought out will do something useful
<3> Ife all over France, the people are already stock piling white flags
<0> Tailor: they feed children and send medical care ... you might disagree with the tactic or the goal, or question the success of the attempt
<14> i'd be shocked if france did anything other than retreat, but you never know
<13> OcDoc, maybe... I think they could launch an attack and end the thing by themselves
<15> what about hide?
<0> Tailor: they provide peacekeepers
<13> KoBushi, hahah :)
<0> Tailor: the purpose of the UN is to provide a "neutral" forum in tricky situations
<0> Ife: good luck
<11> OcDoc, I frankly don't see them as useful at all.
<3> I can't imagine an israeli strike on Iran helping anything in any way
<0> Tailor: it is an organization with potential
<0> Tailor: I would not want to do away with it
<0> and I would not want to drop out of it as a nation
<11> OcDoc, to me it's a corrupt group of despots for the most part.
<13> OcDoc, remember Israel was out numbered immensley by 6 different countries back in 46 I think.. and they won :) I'm looking forward to a repeat performance.. only this time I can "watch"
<0> Tailor: true, but so is most of the world
<3> So far the UN has achived thier goal... there hasn't been a WW3 yet
<11> OcDoc, there we disagree, I would kick their *** out in a New York minute.
<0> Ife: they didn't invade very far ... and they pulled back as soon as they could
<0> Ife: they captured critical tactical spots like the Golan Heights
<13> OcDoc, maybe but just the same
<13> it's still very impressive I think
<2> Tailor; you think there should be no UN?
<0> Ife: I didn't say I wasn't impressed ... how will they invade Iran without going through Iraq to get there?
<11> bethor, I don't see the UN as being effective in any manner.
<11> bethor, so yes, disband it.
<13> OcDoc, not sure their strat on that
<2> Cant we just fix it? hehe
<0> Tailor: it is partially effective and useful in some low level non controversial issues, with potential to become more important as the world evolves
<2> i agree UN has problems, but I really think there should be a powerful UN
<0> Ife: think about it for a while and let us know when you think of a solution, okay?
<13> OcDoc, although I would think a few of the right missiles would blow that nuke gen to bits
<11> bethor, to fix it you would have to take the money away from corrupt despotic leaders, and of course, that would disband it.
<0> bethor: I think it should evolve very gradually ... I would not want the UN to have a lot more power as it now is constituted
<3> I can't continue until I get dimensions, but I can't find the dimensions I need
<2> well i think it should have more power, but without corruption of course
<3> pewp
<11> OcDoc, I doubt it will ever be more effective as the world evolves.
<13> OcDoc, and I would imagine there will be some other countries from around the world that will join them
<0> Ife: I think the US is the only power now in a position to deliver bunker busters accurately to the right targets
<0> Tailor: you may be right
<11> OcDoc, time will tell.
<0> Tailor: but I think it is potentially promising and should be kept around just in case
<0> Tailor: yup
<3> I don't think the UN needs more power; it doesn't need to be authoritarian or a light world government, it just nees to be a mediation center
<0> Ife: you said "all by itself"
<3> I think it needs corruption reforms, but not more power
<13> OcDoc, not sure on that although I believe Israels military is very top notch in their own right
<0> Ife: I was only disagreeing with that statement
<2> i think a world goverment would be great if done right, why not?
<3> bethor because it can't be done right
<2> be more optimistic =)
<11> hahaha
<3> the world is too fractured and varying for one government to work for all peoples and places
<13> OcDoc, yes well I would think they could do it all by themselves... although i don't realisticlly think that when it comes time that they will be by themselves
<11> bethor, how old are you? 20? :-)
<0> the UN is a place where nations who agree can get political cover for their actions ... that's all any national government is, at the core
<2> no im 27
<3> bethor heck for that matter, even in nations as large as the US, Canada, Aus, Russia, a single government is insufficient to deal with the variation of regional culture and needs
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