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Comments:
<0> and diamonds are p***e
<1> Thats why the humanitarian excuse in iraq is just plain crap
<2> Unloopy: Doesnt mather if they really thought they had WMDs, or if they knew there wasnt any. They were either wrong, or liars.
<0> especially with 30k corpses
<3> Rikkard so, it only counts if we invade EVERY country with humanitarian concerns?
<4> iraq has a lot of things in favour of it, the neo-cons wanted oil, the israeli lobby wanted an enemy gone, and big weapons wanted a war
<1> No, it counts when we are consistent
<4> all the stars aligned at iraq
<0> KoBushi, clinton got grilled by gop for doing bosnia thing
<3> Rikkard so, unlss we invade several african nations, china, n korea, Iran, and Saudi Arabia it doesn't count?
<0> for humantarian reasons
<5> un: funny, if we wanted the oil, we could have simply had iraq turn on the pipelines again
<1> Not invade...at least DO something
<6> WASHINGTON -- Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean says White House adviser Karl Rove's push to make the war on terrorism a central campaign issue is "both unpatriotic and wrong."
<6> buahahaha
<3> Rikkard just blindly dropping bombs like Clinton tried to do doesn't help anything
<2> Loopy you are right, but its still disturbing
<7> if we got any oil out of this invasion, why are our gas prices higher than ever
<3> Rikkard sanctions don't work either
<5> nice, defending innocent american civilians from terrorist attacks is "unpatriotic and wrong"
<8> well, America only invades countries that don't have nukes
<0> KoBushi, apparently it helped free bosnians
<0> and croatians
<1> Well, tell Bush that on Iran
<0> and soon kosovo
<1> Because he is trying Sanctions
<3> Rikkard only military presence on the ground has a chance to work... and even then it's unlikely to stop a civil war.
<7> what does Dean know about winning a campaign anyway? :-)
<1> Its not about humanitarian reasons in Iraq...just admit it
<3> Rikkard I would if he listened to me; but he doesn't :)
<0> Lupine, what terrorist attacks from iraq?
<8> no wonder iran wants nukes
<0> don't go all cheney on me
<4> iraq was a civil war in waiting no matter what, they could have had a democratic peaceful turnover of the government
<4> and there would probably still be a civil war
<0> there will be
<7> the ethnic issue is unavoidable unfortunately
<1> There will be a civil war in Iraq
<4> iraq doesn't exist unless there's a western propped tyrant
<6> Court documents in a Brownsville, Texas drug-smuggling case cite a wiretapped telephone conversation by one of the smugglers who said that "Osama's people" are ready to be transported across the Mexican border into the U.S.
<0> it behooves iran to provoke one
<0> syria as well
<3> Rikkard it may be true that it isn't "humanitarian" ... however your "evidence" that it isn't is illogical. You need a better argument
<4> iraq as a country was drawn up that way
<6> [Paperwork in the case] contains details of a December 2004 incident in which [one smuggler] tried to secure transportation for 20 Middle Eastern 'terrorists' waiting to enter the United States from Monterrey, Chiapas and Puebla in Mexico.
<6> "Recorded telephone conversations authorized under the U.S. Patriot Act and a court order captured the [suspect] referring to the 20 men as 'gente de Osama.'
<0> and the sunnis don't need any provoking
<1> No, its not
<8> religious fighting, all such a big joke
<3> Rikkard to say that it isn't humanitarian, because we don't do other humanitarian missions is ridiculous
<7> arabs have a very solid position in the drug trade in the US
<2> Loopy; Civil war would make more sense than this invasion imo
<1> We dont have consistent policy period!
<1> Come on man
<0> they are traditionally the most violent factions in islamic jihad tpe terrorism
<3> Rikkard yu are arguing that unless we attack every country in the worl where human rights are a question then it doesn't count. And that is abserd
<4> yes well the invasion has served its purpose for everyone except americans
<1> No I am not...I am advocating using the same policies
<3> no, you aren't advocating anything
<0> UnLoOpY, amen
<5> kobushi: funny how those who castrated the US ground forces during the 90s, are the same ones bitching we havn't dealt with thirty other nations :-)
<1> Oh please
<0> the region is less stable
<1> I advocate a reformed UN
<7> i advocate abolition of the UN
<1> I advocate using a new UN
<3> you are claiming we haven't attacked these other nations, therefor Iraq isn't a humanitarian mission
<0> oil has NOT financed iraq's reconstruction
<3> Rikkard and that isn't a reasonable argument to make
<1> We are not going to stay a bunch of nation states forever
<0> gas prices are up
<1> Reasonable to me
<0> what is it we gained?
<8> well, america never invades countries with nukes, so that's why we don't invade North Korea, China or other countries with nukes
<9> its completely reasonable
<9> Rikkard wins this debate
<0> oh i forgot, we gained more debt
<4> the israeli lobby is happy that the US is more commited than ever to the region, and one of their enemies is gone; big weapons is happy because they are getting paid; the iraqi majority are happy because they're no longer 2nd cl*** citizens in their own country; i'm not sure if the neo-cons are happy but they're psychos anyways and i doubt if they were just grabbing for oil rather than being generally crazy and wanting a war
<1> RULE OF LAW
<1> heard of it?
<0> wot, good point
<3> Rikkard you want consistant polic, sure, I agree we should be consistent... but being inconsistent doesn't prove that Iraq has no humanitarian elements t the mission
<1> A new UN force to enforce security council resolutions
<4> americans didn't gain anything except more crazy debt
<3> policy*
<4> and more enemies
<4> and more countries that know the best way to stop an american invasion is to actually have nukes
<1> Only to be dispatched by the Security Council
<5> Rikkard: that's nice you are waving a magic wand around.. but tell us, how are you going to get France/russia/china to enforce the SC resolutions when they havn't done so before?
<2> Loppy I agree. Its not that the US is "evil" for invading iraq. They are just stupid. What a horrible idea
<9> 225 billion dollars and 2,200 killed and 15,000 wounded and the country is no better off
<0> cripes, politicians don't even give enough of a damn about our own citizen victims of katrina to be enobled with humanitarian ideals vis a vis iraqis
<1> Rule of Law...UN Resolutions...Enforcement of Resolutions
<0> shame
<1> Im all for reforming some of the crap at the UN Currently
<5> Rikkard: i.e. paralysis
<5> Impotance, stagnation, corruption
<0> bethor, stupid about sums it up
<0> inane
<0> dopey
<5> rikkard: stop waving around a magic wand, and tell us how would you do it
<0> a big fat why there why now?
<1> Sounds like a state legislature Lupine
<1> I did tell you
<4> i was gonna vote NDP this election until i saw a FARMERS FEED OUR CITIES sign on the campaign office
<1> We are not going to stay nation states forever
<2> Linues: Because Bush is a retard. He really did think it would be a quick war. US will be there for }a decade
<4> so forget them
<9> "tell us how you would do it" good argument there man
<0> diverting troops and hardware from afghanistan, and we're still there years later trying to control border regions
<5> bethod: *WRONG ANSER* Bush has said that we'ld be in iraq for a very long time.
<6> we are the world
<0> oh, and looking the other way from druglords
<6> we are the chitlins
<5> linus: actually, very little was diverted from afghanistan, they used totally different divisions for the most part
<0> beth, i don't know how he thought that, given the expectation of chemical weapons
<2> Linus: I just saw an old interview where Rumsfield says it would be 6 months tops
<1> We are using UN agencies in Afghanistant
<10> linus is baghdad bob for usama bin laden
<5> bethor: right, the invasion and defeat of saddam was under a month
<2> Lupine, yes so is that what he ment?
<1> I wonder when under the definition of Bush this so called "war on terror" ends?
<0> with all the pre-war hype, one would have thought that saddam would not go down without inflicting major casualties with chemical or bio weapons
<5> bethor: absolutely. but since you simply ignored what bush said.. i dont blame you for your ignorance
<8> It ends the same time as the drug war.... nver
<8> never
<1> Never is right
<5> linus: well, even Putin/Chiraq believed that.. hell, even his own generals believed it
<1> Ask the Brits
<3> Rikkard doesn't really matter what Bush's view of it's end is; he'll only be in office a few more years and after that he'll have no say in the matter.
<5> rikkard is simply an ignorant boy, who thinks that "hey look, I could win the war on terror in a matter of X days..".. when in reality, you can't win it. You can merely prevent major attacks
<0> I'm not taking that angle... my point was how did admin think it would be a short war, if they beleived he had such weapons?
<1> Im not saying that at all Lupine...way to make something up
<5> linus: because the US forces wree well equipted to deal with it
<2> Lupine; You are wrong. Bush had no idea this would be such a long war. Could you please show me some quote where he said it?
<6> ahhhhh milk
<1> US Army is not built to act as a municipal government...
<0> predciting victory in 6 months when bringing down a decades old dictatorship with ***umptions of wmd capability seems ludicrous
<1> Some colonel has NO clue how to run a waste water system
<0> Lupine, but saddam would not have discriminated in whom was targeted
<11> I **** a lot of ****
<11> KILL NIGGERS
<12> Racist or foul Language or Spam
<0> we should have ***umed m***ive cicilian casuyalties and the long term effect of that
<6> Rikkard hahaha yeh I geuss there is no such thing as the Army Corp of Engineers right
<6> riiiiight
<6> get a clue
<0> to think it would be a quick and clean war given the pre-war intel doesnt mesh
<1> For Dams, etc
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