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Comments:
<0> Lincoln didnt want war because it was pardon me. War.
<1> Lincoln didnt want war because it was pardon me. So we broke up.
<0> hehe
<2> no one WANTS war
<1> OcDoc, Oh yeah as a graduate of AA (Well they say there are no good reason
<2> well accept me
<0> Must be a mind meld
<2> i like war
<3> oops ... on the side of GOD I meant
<1> Lincoln didnt want war with Persia. Was totally drained out. And then Muslims took over.
<3> ouch
<2> i think war is the ultimate honor of mankinds perserverance on the battlefield
<0> Anyway, the point is Lincoln was always an abolitionist and outspoken, but he didnt want to kill 600k americans over the issue, and he didnt start the war.
<0> the south did
<1> wow, if half the channel had its way, the south did
<3> somebody shut up drnkmky please?
<2> but the effects of war
<2> no one wants that
<4> !chatter 1
<0> they fired the first shots before lincoln could be swarn in, they seceeded (South Carolina) because Lincoln won the presidency not even willing to wait and see what he would do..
<2> i would be very happy with paintball
<3> Free: he could have negotiated it and defused the situation
<2> and elimination
<2> by getting paint on you
<0> He tried
<2> paint ball tanks and such
<3> I am not defending the south
<2> war is so obsolete
<0> Lincoln gave sppeched about how he would not push for abolitionisn if it meant the dissolution of the united states.
<0> He saw both as evil
<3> he could have let them secede and then gradully brought the nation back together
<0> he saw the death of the USA as more evil
<2> OcDoc have you ever served?
<5> hahaha: http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/res/162374728.html
<4> He's just going to learn from you guys, ok?
<3> Hemi: served in what?
<2> Ocdoc or have you ever dressed battle wounds and stuff?
<2> or treated someone with gun shot wounds?
<3> Hemi: I served in the army during vietnam and took care of injured in the army hospital
<0> South Carolinans, shot first, and they attacked first, they started the war, they attacked a federal garrison which was federal property built with federal money (Or northern money)
<3> Hemi: I went out in choppers and picked up burn patients
<6> dustoff?
<2> ocDoc oh my god
<2> thats horrid
<2> =(
<3> DrFlip: no I wasn't in combat
<0> And south Carolina was happy to impose its will on northern states by virture (Or no virtue) of the Fugitive Slave act of 1850..
<2> OcDoc my grand dad was a fireman, and when he would come home with his bunkers on tottaly tired ****ed up and just toast
<7> That sounds pretty scary though -- picking up guys who have been burned.
<2> he would have chunks of burned flesh on his ****
<2> and you could smell it
<3> Hemi: I'm a trained firefighter
<2> it was freakin HORRIBLE
<2> the smell was so
<3> Hemi: yup, nothing much worse than a burned human
<2> anyway
<0> Then they were federalists. Suddenly they were states rights advocates when they couldnt impose there will on other states anymore and others threatened (But did not) impose their will on them
<2> the smell
<2> i will never forget that smell
<3> I spent two years taking care of burn patients
<2> and i was just a little kid
<0> so it never had anything to do with states rights, it had everything to do with slavery
<2> =(
<3> and then I went out and learned how to fight fires
<2> my grand dad would be so tired
<2> he would just sit in the chair and my grand mom would undress him
<3> Free: no one said it was about states rights ... but states rights were damaged irrecoverably by the war ... that was my point
<3> Hemi: and after the Phillips Petroleum explosion in Houston I started the first industrial Critical Incident Response Team in the country
<3> to prevent PTSD in emergency responders ... my team was the first one on the scene in Oklahoma City to debrief the Oke City bombing responders
<3> Free: so with the best of intentions Lincoln did irreperable harm to the constitution
<0> OcDoc, I dont believe so.
<0> What is wrong with todays constitution ?
<3> Free: okay
<0> I think we have more liberties than ever.
<3> Free: nothing, except that the government is no longer following it
<3> Free: when did we start having to get permission from the government to run a business or build a house?
<0> Yeah well, Lincoln was at war and some things he did, I didnt agree with but there were also amazing freedoms during the war. the press in the north would inform the south on northern troop movements.. that to me was silly and I would of stopped it, but it did happen and especially early in the war.
<0> I think in the end we are a better country for the civil war as tragic as that war was.
<0> we now can honestly say we believe in inalienable rights.
<3> When did the Federal Government get permission from the people to tax what we earn working?
<0> OcDoc, after Licoln, in fact after 1900
<0> You cant blame lincoln fot that.
<0> Although some zoning laws probably existed in cities prior to then.
<0> in the east
<3> I can't blame the thirteenth and fourteenth and fifteenth amendments on Lincoln?
<0> although I dont know, as a Broker I should know we learn that kind of stuff to become brokers, but I cant say when the first zoning laws were p***ed.
<0> Nope, You can blame the interpretation of them on the supreme court though..over generations.
<3> he started it
<3> he opened the door to a powerful federal government
<2> Fedora 5 is freakin beaaaauuuuutiful!
<3> it was a pivotal point in history
<2> best linux i have ever used
<0> Lincoln Was quickly ***asinated and had very little time to do anything other than cause the reunification of the states and the end to slavery , to very noble outcomes.
<0> to = two
<2> FT, and KNEW he would be ***asinated
<0> what happened after lincoln probably would of been toned down had lincoln been president, the reconstruction.
<8> besides how can you beat an OS that comes with a hat? ;-)
<0> The southern idiots shot the man who might give them more justice than about any other northern politician.
<3> Free: do you remember what Booth's reason for killing Lincoln was?
<2> FT, I think Grant did the best he could under the circumstances
<2> FT I think Grant wasa brilliant president
<3> it had to do with Lincoln's last act before he died
<2> US grant is not given enough credit
<0> Grant was a corrupt lousy politician which causes Sherman who at one time was his best buddy to become disgusted completely with Grant.
<2> NO!
<0> He would tell you Politics ruined grant as a man and a human being
<2> he wasn't corrupt
<0> The hell he wasnt
<2> he wasa lousy politician
<2> YE!
<0> he was corrupt
<2> i will give you lousy
<2> but he wasn't corrupt
<0> He was utterly corruptable and corrupted.
<2> no he wasn't god damn it
<2> i will argue that
<0> I an find evidence of his corruption and I will. brb
<2> show me how he was corrupt
<2> i have never heard of his corruption
<2> other than he tried to deal with the end of the civil war
<9> Come on barbaro!!
<2> i would love to see any of the other politicians deal with the end of th ecivil war as eloquently as he did
<9> I just want to see one triple crown
<2> in todays times?
<9> one!!
<2> yes he may have been corrupt
<2> but in 1870
<2> i don't think so
<0> However, Grant came to realize that his brother-in-laws advice was harming public confidence and he ordered the immediate sale of $4 million worth of government gold. The price plummeted. Thousands of people suffered financial losses not including Fisk and Gould, who refused to pay off their obligations.
<0> One example of dozens to come
<0> Belknap was impeached by the House of Representatives, but acquitted by the Senate in August 1876.
<0> The frequency of these events led to the use of the term Grantism, a word synonymous with greed and corruption. Many people at the time speculated that money from these ventures was being funneled into Republican Party coffers.
<2> heh
<2> how was GRANT tied to that?
<2> its like saying "Bushism" today
<0> And listen love or hate Sherman he knew grant about better than anyone and he was honest to the core, which is why he wasnt president and he said grant was utterly corrupted by politics.
<2> Grant didn't FIRE Belknap
<2> the congress and senate did
<3> On April 11, Booth was in the crowd outside the White House when President Lincoln gave an impromptu speech from his window. When Lincoln stated that he was in favor of granting suffrage to Negroes, an outraged Booth turned to a man named Lewis Powell and urged Powell to shoot the president on the spot. Powell refused. Booth vowed that it would be the final speech Lincoln would ever make.
<0> These unsavory dealings led to the establishment of a Liberal Republican Party.
<0> The true villain in these scandals was the spoils system, in which successful officeholders rewarded their supporters with political appointments. An ever-growing part of the population began to recognize the need for some type of civil service reform.
<0> http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h234.html
<2> FT, now, i am not trying to argue with you, just trying to understand the history
<2> how was GRANT involved in this?
<2> its like trying to blame Bush for the current goings on in the house and senate
<2> =)
<2> I think Grant has gotten a very bad rap in our history
<2> like the fact that he was "always drunk"
<2> which is a lie
<2> the fact is that the guy never drank on the job
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