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Comments:
<0> Free: right, but they're still drug abusers until they decide to stop for reasons of their own, no matter where you put them
<1> Timur: you have any drug user friends?
<2> At least then they become aware of what addiction is, what symptoms are, what excuses people use, what denial is, and so on.
<3> opium is ingrained in their culture
<1> Timur: were you impacted by drug users? raped by one maybe?
<4> Lib: I have had, and they were all pretty miserable.
<2> even if htey go back to the use of drugs it will never be quite as fun again ;)
<5> Hmm, googling this. recreational opium use started 1650's this website says.
<6> !chatter 650
<0> Timur: I hear you knocking my opinion but I don't hear you saying why you disagree
<7> you got people getting out of prison, after some hard time, still addicted
<1> Timur: well I have some that are not; this means your position is not one of total authority now is it?
<0> Timur: what did Gibbon say that makes you think differently?
<8> i was doing capoeira or some crap that do
<7> cause what else are you gonna do in jail other than drugs
<4> no, the impact, mr. so-sensitive-to-ad-homs, was seeing them experiencing pain and misery, and their families and friends along with them.
<4> Oc: uh..
<2> OcDoc, Oh yeah as a graduate of AA (Well they say there are no graduates) I claim to be the first ;) Or one of many :) I know very well how they return to using..
<0> Timur: you're the expert on the Decline and Fall
<1> in fact; the biggest drug users I knew - we're all med students. heh
<1> were, even
<0> Free: yup
<2> The effect of treatment on me took the first time and strongly, I saw clear as day death in the right hand and life in the left.
<2> or vice versa
<5> Chinese emporer banned Opium at penalty of death in 1800. and fought a war with British so they could bring the drug into the country.
<4> division of the empire. ******ination as a means of achieving rulership. laws that were actually insufficient to run an empire having been designed for a smaller and more contained republic. increasing reliance on non-Roman irregulars.
<8> division of being so tired
<0> Free: and AA has the best chance of success because ....
<4> and the abandonment of the old virtues.
<8> kids get in the way of being so tired
<0> Timur: wow ... you just gave all my arguments for me
<9> hahahah Wild Wild West
<2> So I decided I would suffer through the urges and hang in there and go to meetings and do whatever it took till I stopped having cravings, today I have no cravings for any drugs.
<9> Will Smiff!
<8> you will never be quite as fun again ;)
<9> cracks me up everytime
<0> Timur: powerful government = bureucracy
<4> Oc: no, not powerful government. A government that wasn't designed systemically to handle a large empire.
<8> find something that i agree with
<5> Everything dies. Which 'death of roman empire' are we talking about? Collapse of eastern Romans?
<0> Timur: there is no such government possible
<8> Oc: no, not powerful government = bureucracy
<4> they very much wanted to be, and became, an empire.
<10> my noes feels funny
<0> Timur: thank you for making my point for me
<8> let me feel more comfortable
<11> romans in the east ? nonsense
<4> Oc: except there is. We're doing a much better job.
<2> Which USmale is active ?
<0> Timur: next!
<2> US_Male or US-Male ?
<5> I thought Eastern Roman empire fought a war with Persia. Was totally drained out. And then Muslims took over.
<11> MsPunjab: selam allaikum Punjab jan ! Might want to stay off the coke !
<8> Chinese emporer banned Opium at penalty of death in 1800. and fought a war with Persia. Was totally drained out. And then Muslims took over.
<10> salam
<0> Timur: we're doing a terrible job and it's getting worse
<11> persia ? you mean the ottoman mongols
<0> Timur: we're fighting wars all over the world that we can't afford
<4> Oc, you are amazingly capable of selectivity, which either means you're stupid (I rule that out) or that you're really neither interested in, or aren't serious about, the issue, so never mind.
<8> [Google] Desc: Retarded Animal Babies - Cast, Crew, Reviews, Plot Summary, Comments, ... come out as completely crude and disgusting (I rule that out) or that you're really neither interested in, or aren't serious about, the issue, so never mind.
<4> Oc: no, we're doing reasonably well.
<11> OcDoc: surely you can afford a war with Iran.
<0> Timur: which means you've run out of arguments that support your position
<4> a lot better than Rome, but surely imperfect
<5> Hey, wait am inute!
<0> vasilios: we could if Timur is right
<4> Oc: no, which means you fail to grasp them, either by intent or ability.
<8> Oc: no, which means every 100
<11> heh
<0> Timur: which means you haven't stated them yet
<4> except I have.
<4> if you can't get them, well, try reading or something.
<0> Timur: infighting among powerful governors is a real problem ... that's what you said Gibbon says caused the
<4> maybe that'll ork.
<4> w+
<0> decline of the roman empire
<2> Timur, How can you say or even suggest in the slightest way OcDoc is stupid ? I admire ocDocs thinking even if I disagree with him on an issue..
<8> i been with British so they could bring the drug into the country.
<2> To call him stupid make no sense at all and is not true.
<4> that was also a big problem, right. afaik, no US states are mutually warring.
<8> that was also a way for them to believe that they are more masculine if they talk that way.
<4> FT: I didn't. I said I ruled it out.
<0> well, we can't discuss the entire six volume works of Gibbon, we have to narrow the scope a bit
<1> Timur: not currently, but the US states did war.
<4> Oc: Except I am discussing it.
<1> wage war.
<8> i am right handed
<4> Lib: and it was the development of a *federal* government that largely put a stop to it.
<8> thats what they do when a good girl
<0> Timur: your summary seems to support my position
<5> Yeah I think ROman provinces were more independent than states in the USA. Becaue they bad communication. It was more like NATO or EU maybe. But with an emporer at the center.
<1> Timur: ah you must just looooove LIncoln the Tyrant..
<2> Ive read analysis of the Roman Empire which suggested that nativism,xenophobia, and a protectionism actually lead to the downfall. but I am sure it was a lot of things.
<4> Oc: that's because you are misreading it, as usual, so, let's move on.
<2> Once you became part of the roman empire you accepted it you became nativist so dont rule that out as a possibility
<8> i'm referring to her breasts, of girls to chat with me
<4> Lib: damn straight I love a 'tyrant' who stamped out the slavery and secession of the South.
<0> Timur: well, if I misunderstand something you said, correct me please
<5> Rome discussion is a nice break for 'Iran discussion' actually.
<4> Oc: I already have.
<1> Timur: great; you love big government and hate freedom, got it.
<2> I agree with timur I love Lincoln.
<2> Damn right
<1> Timur: i'm done with you.
<4> and every time I do, it's another oversimplistic reductionism, so it ceases to have value as a conversation.
<4> Lib: good. :)
<4> Lib: yeah, the 'freedom' to own slaves is one I don't respect.
<0> Lincoln was a great man with good (not great) ideas who caused much more unintended harm through good intentions than most leaders in history
<8> Lincoln was a great man with good (not great) ideas who caused much more hair on my forehead
<2> **** the southernors of that era who have a been a pox on america ever since, slavery is this nations biggest contradiciton of values and lngest cause of social problems like a plague.
<8> or as a graduate of AA (Well they say there are no graduates) I claim to be the first ;) Or one of many :) I know very well how they return to using..
<4> harm? fascinating.
<0> Timur: I have enumerated the unintended harm he did many times and won't repeat it now
<1> Fr333: to simply the civil war as being over slavery is wrong.
<12> shaddup
<2> IF we never had slavery and a black tried to make an excuse that his failures are the fault of society we could counter immediately no they arent your problem is what you did with your freedoms. But htey didnt have the freedoms
<8> hey, money talks with the bitches that is up
<4> wow, if half the channel had its way, the south (and west, cf. the Kansas issue) would be slaveowning, and we'd all have kids who could buy crack at the corner store.
<8> wow, if half the channel had its way, the south (and west, cf. the Kansas issue) would be awake
<1> simplify.
<2> not in truth until the 1960s
<0> Timur: I am glad he freed the slaves and preserved the union
<2> and even that was a starting point for many
<8> Demonrest: you should be banned for that are not; this means your position is not one of total authority now is it?
<12> hey you think the american economy is stakced against the middle cl***? or can people still build wealth if they apply themselves?
<8> Free: right, but they're still there?
<0> the way it was done was unnecessary in restrospect (the slaves would have been freed soon anyway)
<4> Oc: the benefits outweighed the harm. The south, stupidly/insanely, brought the civil war on itself by seceding, and there really wasn't any option left but to kick their collective secessionist ***.
<2> Well we have to deal with the issue of slavery in our history even today, As Germans will have to carry the deep shame of Nazism around in their history.
<0> and wiped out the last vestiges of state's power for no good reason
<4> this is where some dingbat chimes in about the 'right to secede'
<8> this is where some that are not; this means your position is not one of total authority now is it?
<4> no good reason, mhm
<4> ok, let me go do something productive. :) bbl
<2> To createa more perfect union where people are endowed by thier creator in certain inalienable rights, among them........
<8> Lincoln was a great man with good (not great) ideas who caused much more romantic
<2> Unless youa re black
<0> Timur: since it would have happened without the war anyways, it was unnecessary
<2> or indian
<2> back then.
<0> drunkmky are you a bot?
<8> Timur: were you gonna do in jail other than drugs
<8> no, just really druink
<9> man i can't wait to get my digi cable
<8> dont' you know you just can't afford
<2> Today these issues must be dealt with responsibly but my point is slavery was a horrible institution for a people who claimed they loved liberty.
<0> Lincoln was a skeptic about war
<9> 5 FREAKIN days though
<0> he correctly lampooned the idea that one side or the other was fighting on the side of war
<2> Lincoln didnt want war because it was pardon me. War.
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