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Comments:
<0> Polarizing America will lead to strife
<1> Mikey: the only way that can happen is if they change the "district" concept for electing reps
<1> KoBushi: yes
<2> we just need another civil war
<2> =)
<3> according to the law of entropy everything leads to strife
<1> KoBushi: but it's so evenly divided that it encourages excess
<4> rond not true; entrpy only works when there sin't more energy being added to the system
<5> lets not polarize america
<5> everyone vote libertarian
<1> if we just spend an extra million we can WIN this thing
<4> also, entropy only implies decay; not "strife" :)
<2> Herzen: what a grand idea =)
<3> the result of decay is strife
<5> 'polarization' goes on in every political system
<3> in a social sense
<5> every self-deterministic system
<3> and everything does fall apart
<5> its the nature of them
<1> Herzen: but it's not a good trend
<5> there is a lot of polarization here in Canada
<4> rond but socia systems; typically, are constantly having more energy put into them
<5> OcDoc, What are you going to do to fix it?
<4> so entropy doesn't apply
<3> in sense it does
<2> yeah, but isnt that the people who dont speak french against the people who do?
<0> ok...off to ER...funfunfun...
<4> entropy only works when there is no new energy put into a closed system
<1> Herzen: I already shot my wad ... I'm campaigning for a more modern election system and letting minority parties have a few reps
<0> I call work...of course..this is all fake....
<5> prorep is going to make the larger parties less polarized?
<3> according to stephan hawking (as I understand it) entropy is basically in our attempt to create order we always create more disorder
<3> I will go with that
<0> I am walking in a comma position for effect :)
<3> and that is what I am referring to
<1> hope you feel better
<1> soon
<0> Entropy - occurs every first November of calendar year
<5> certainly in countries where ProRep is practiced, their politics is just as vicious, just with more poles to attack
<6> I often think human cultures have to go through a period of war before becoming 'civilized'. Problem is, the ppl of the ME worship death and destruction. Its taking them a while to get it over with
<5> It also make smuch weaker governments
<0> well..they will prob give me some anaebolics and some flexeril...
<1> Herzen: but everyone feels that they're in the discussions
<0> I did this before..but a lot worse
<4> rond no, that isn't what entropy is
<1> instead of increasingly distanced from the "rulers"
<1> Herzen: somewhat weaker government would be a good thing from my point of view
<3> Kobushi I will go my understanding of hawking rather than someone whom I very seldom agree with on IRC
<3> thanks anyway
<4> rond entropy concerns thermodynamics; and it just means that cosed systems whic don't hav additional energy added, will decay
<1> if everyone can say "my rep was chosen by me and knows what I want"
<4> *shrug* be stupid then I don't care :)
<3> thanks
<4> you could look it up instead of missunderstanding hawking
<7> entropy # A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
<7> # A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
<7> # The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
<7> # Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
<3> thanks anyway
<3> [09:07] <7> # Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
<3> thanks rusty
<3> [09:07] <7> # The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
<4> http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ENTRTHER.html
<3> that one too
<3> You might want to read hawking again kobushi
<5> I don't think there is an inevitable march towards the deterioration of our system or society
<1> rond: that doesn't imply that trying to increase order increases the rate of entropy tho
<5> I think infact we improved, improved, improved, up to a certain point, and we started on the downhill
<7> which is weird it sounds like those two definitions are in conflict with each other
<3> I don't either herz
<4> rond because the universe is a closed system
<3> I just agree with hawking in that when we try to create order we create a lot of disorder
<4> society isn't a closed system
<1> rond: that isn't entropy tho
<7> on one side it says that the universe will move toward a state of inert uniformity, at the same time deterioration is inevitable
<3> we create a lot of disorder just getting one gallon of gas into your tank
<8> rond: it has nothing to do with us creating order
<4> OcDoc hey, don't correct him, he's heard hawking, he knows what entropy is! ;)
<9> I liked that Stephen Hawkings quote someone stated, like with no extra rules there are still laws at work and when you state specific rules people then know what they have to get around and how to get what they need and now are justified because of rules.
<8> in any closed system, things will progress from order to chaos
<4> OcDoc nevermind what physics textbooks say!
<3> then we trun that one gallon of gas back into more disorder
<1> KoBushi: I'm not correcting him ... I'm trying to understand what he's saying and discussing it
<3> sort of like politis
<3> politics
<4> OcDoc he's saying "I missunderstand somethng, and nho I will apply it imporperly to somethng else"
<4> :P
<4> later
<1> sinteint: sounds like Hawking is a nihilist and anarchist
<9> Kinda.
<1> KoBushi: societies are not physical entities
<1> KoB: heh
<7> well certain aspects of space do have a kind of anarchy taking place i suppose
<3> My example of the gallon of gas says it all OC
<1> why do anything since it will inevitably lead to a worse outcome ... or maybe that's Taoist
<8> except burning a gallon of gas is not a closed system
<1> rond: I don't think so
<3> I am not saying it all leads to a worse outcome
<1> rond: it raises many questions
<3> I am just saying trying to make things work and keep them working is a dirty business
<3> lots of room for polarization
<3> and the last 60 years its been very polarized
<3> but yet my life is easier than my grandfathers
<1> rond: well, it makes a difference ... if every social action leads to an increase in the rate of entropy, then we should never take action
<8> so guys, is entropy the buzzword of the day?
<8> do we all scream everytime someone says it?
<1> Taoist philosophy says "be like the leaf in the river"
<1> Nomex: heh
<3> and even though it takes more than a gallon of gas to make a gallon of gas I still like and want my gallon of gas
<9> I believe that the energy goes somewhere, we are getting better at harnessing the powers we utilize everyday.
<3> it gets me to the golf course
<1> rond: it's a chaotic system ... you can have increasing stress on a meta-stable attractor and things don't get worse gradually, they get worse catastrophically
<1> rond: polarization may ultimately lead to a sudden shift in society
<3> might hasn't really yet though
<1> rond: so party politics may be a big game of chicken
<3> don't get me wrong I don't like the polarization of today
<9> That why we are researching super strong materials.
<1> rond: well, that's all I'm saying
<3> but the more I read the more I find the old addage to be true
<1> I don't like it
<3> the more things change the more they remain the same
<1> sintient?
<9> That was a joke.
<9> Pertaining to your meta stable structure comment.
<9> attractor I mean.
<1> rond: well, if you think WWII is the "same" as ... damn, I can't think of a comparison
<8> polarized entropy
<1> sintient: ah ... I see
<9> WWII is similar to Gulf War I.
<1> sintient: I was trying to think of a peaceful period
<1> damn ... we've been at war for a long time
<3> there really isn't one since 19 hmmm
<9> I would like some specifics on this polarization you are talking about.
<10> breakfast timmme
<1> sintient: party politics getting increasingly strident and "hateful"
<1> food
<9> Do you guys mean the differences between ways to solve the same problems
<1> I need an english muffin with cherry preserves ... or maybe marmalade
<1> sintient: more the tactics of the two parties
<9> Ew I didn't want to get into parties, actually I can.
<1> it seems to be more of an "our team won, now what do we do" approach
<9> Did you guys ever watch crossfire?
<5> When the Bucs cheerleaders started dancing to the song 'Rock You Like a Hurricane' on Sunday some fans thought it was offensive. After all, the Bucs opponent was New Orleans, a city hit hard by Hurricane Katrina.
<5> GG
<9> How one guys MIcheal would have to take the opposite position of Novak for the show to work.
<3> OC go read "The Borrowed Years"
<1> sintient: well, we can discuss the more atmospheric part of social entropy
<1> rond: what does it say?
<3> its about the US from 1936 - 1941
<9> Do you guys think the polarization is somewhat artificial just to give us some choice?
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