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Comments:
<0> depends what form that 'wackiness' takes.
<1> *say
<2> You get a cause of outrage, and then people take it to the 'next level'
<3> wackiness isn't necessarily illegal
<3> yet
<4> Timur: it gets to government overzealousness
<3> patience
<4> it was unnecessary
<5> Timur: there used to be a federal thing something about sufficient force, in waco/weaver federal force was not required..
<3> congress is working on it
<1> Weaver didn't do ****
<3> Especially Mrs. Weaver.
<1> yeah
<2> Yeah she got shot by snipers
<4> some government agencies have to try to justify their existence to congress so they provoke incidents to hit the news
<3> And his son?
<1> if i want to live in the woods with a lot of guns there's nothing that says i can't
<5> now in new orleans, apparently bush offered the gov of louisanna federal support she denied the help, yet later bitches
<3> Bokavitch: yew terrist
<1> lol
<0> who cares
<4> "see how important we are?" ... reauthorize our funding
<2> I think they had some agents ask Weaver multipe times to cut a shotgun down to an illegal length. And eventually he gave in and did this, and then they went after him.
<3> ke6i: not an agent
<3> a snitch
<4> kebi: they were trying to recruit him to go undercover
<0> I'm not interested in justifying the gratuitous antigovernment paranoia on one hand and the excusal of wackos on the other.
<3> who hounded the piss out of him
<4> Timur: I don't want to excuse whackos
<1> we shouldn't excuse the wackos in government either then
<0> I'm not saying you, Oc, particularly
<3> Timur: We realize you are enlightened far beyond our pitiful moral capabilities.
<4> Timur: I want to leave them alone unless it's necessary
<0> but people like jsable
<2> Well, imo, it's part of the whole process. You have a cause, maybe just, and then you have an 'over the top' reaction, like McVeigh
<1> and gunning an innocent family down is pretty wacko to me
<0> 'unless it's necessary', right.
<3> Timur: But I write better DSP code than you ever will!
<4> TImur: that's why we need due process
<3> HAH!
<3> moron!
<4> and why it's dangerous to short-cut due process
<0> except that's not really an accurate summary of what happened or what the context was.
<0> jhicks: fine, I don't code
<3> MORON!
<3> he can't code! he can't code!
<4> Timur: what's not accurate?
<0> it can be, it can also be dangerous at times to think that due process must always trump all other factors
<0> no, I'm not aspiring to be a coder
<3> Timur: Here's a nickle kid, get a better computer
<4> Timur: I can think of emergencies that might justify it
<0> I have a fine comp, just.. not intereste
<0> d
<0> Oc: right, same.
<5> Timur: people like me, yawn, ok then i consider ppl like you agents of evil, axis powers, so now i get to face a wall of xtian zelots, yehaa.
<3> because your dumb!
<4> Timur: do you think either Waco or Ruby Ridge even come close to qualifying?
<3> ur
<0> jsable: well, that seems conistent
<0> sis-
<0> Oc: yep
<1> std::cout "He doesn't code!" endl; return(0);
<3> u r s0 stoopid!
<3> hehehehe
<0> gun toting racewar freaks qualify
<4> Timur: I'm curious about why? both were stable situations until the feds provoked incidents
<0> machine gun toting child molesting freaks too
<3> Timur: only some people like leaving the word 'racewar' out of that
<0> you know
<0> out of all the people to choose to have sympathy for
<4> Timur: well, now who's being inaccurate
<3> and you prolly would support them, being from NY
<0> are you the ACLU?
<0> I'm not from NY.
<5> Timur: cia drug crazed ***asians, have you never heard of them?
<3> you live there don't you?
<4> Timur: local officials investigated Mount Carmel Center and found nothing wrong
<0> Waco = multiple allegations of child abuse.
<3> yeah
<1> i'm from Utah man, couldn't be further from NY socially
<3> there was pedophilia going on there
<4> Timur: by angry ex-spouses
<0> riiight, and Child Protective Services *always* has a perfect record.
<3> so the correct thing to do is kill the children
<4> Timur: how is that a federal crime?
<1> jhicks: lol
<2> Yeah Waco the child abuse stories in the paper were what tipped 'em off.
<0> them achine gun part pretty much contributed to that
<4> uh oh ... I sense an angry brawl without logic impending
<0> then shooting a federal agent
<3> Timur is hot for Janet Reno
<4> so with that I'll back out
<2> USG gave the story to the paper, and then the Waco guys knew the s' was coming down.
<0> yeah, your sympathies are as freakishly misplaced as the ACLUs
<5> waco was is a religious war, the 7th day adventests and a branch of them
<3> There goes that condescending tone from the master again.
<0> from the POV of the religious nutjobs it was a religious war
<0> only
<1> the ACLU is specifically made to fight unpopular causes
<3> no, it was an abuse of federal power
<0> that's my take; if you find it condescending, your choice.
<0> yeah, mhm
<3> they made a mountain out of a mole hill
<0> smoke more pot
<3> and killed a lotta innocent people
<3> who could have been rescued
<3> it was sheer stupidity
<3> no conspiracy
<0> right, and that was tragic, but the people ultimately responsible were the adults inside.
<3> just dumb***es with badges
<3> typical though
<0> yeah, because it happens every day
<0> wait, no it doesn't.
<4> Timur: I will ask, though ... what have you read on the subject? Have you read "Ashes of Waco"?
<5> jhicks: waco was rather vague, ruby rigdge imho was not, her feds killed without cause big time
<1> right... and i'm sure the prisoner's in abu ghraib were ultimately responsible for being sodomized and tortured
<3> jsable: yes
<0> Oc: I've read a lotta stuff on the web, both pro- and anti-gov
<0> again, misplaced sympathies
<0> the people in prison in Iraq > important, than, say, US soldiers being shot and bombe.
<0> d
<3> Timur is antidisestablishmentarianist
<4> Timur: Ashes was a careful research into the events surrounding Waco by and independent and respected reporter
<0> choose your battles.
<5> this is why some allies basically attact federal places
<1> Yeah man, most of the people in abu ghraib being tortured ARE more important
<2> Just seems there's a potential for this Partiot act stuff to cut more than 1 way.
<0> Boka: Why
<1> because most of them are civilians who have nothing to do with it
<0> Boka: proof?
<3> ke6i: Not as long as George, son of god, is in power.
<1> The militaries own statesments say so
<0> they just round up random people with no basis
<4> Timur: although I have no sympathy for the kooks at Mount Carmel Center, there was absolutely NO excuse for what the BATF started there
<3> ke6i: his successor might have problems with that much power though
<0> I doubt the .mil said that the detainees have 'nothing' to do
<2> Has been widely reported. That Abu Ghraib has gotten a wide variety of guys
<3> ke6i: but not our lord and savior
<1> something like 95% of the people have no connection to the insurgency and have no intel to provide and they get arrested and tortured in abu ghraib
<0> Oc: honestly, on the scale of issues being faced, that's imo pretty small potatoes.
<4> Timur: the Congressional committee had specific plans to decomission the BATF and roll their functions into the FBI
<3> let us kneel toward washington and pray
<0> Boka: proof?
<5> how the **** can you consider yourself xtian and view a GETmo priosoner as legal
<1> our soldiers are NOT civilians
<1> go to the frontline website
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