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Comments:
<0> Lupine: well that's the difference between "decoration" and "art"
<1> ocdoc: i disagree!
<2> Herz: it's not meant to be appreciated as art so much as a gaming 'tool', and art is generally not primarily utilitarian
<1> "art" is decoration.. only for musuems.. chuckle
<2> except.. the Art Nouveau/Jugendstil movement in Munich, c. 1909, did just that, and brilliantly
<3> Timur, do you think the world designer, the graphic designer, not the ai programmer and the gameplay designer, would agree with that?
<4> Timur, well, that's a matter of some debate
<4> craft vs. art
<0> Lupine: no, I meant what you choose to hang on YOUR wall is the difference between art and decoration ... you can decorate your house with art
<2> the combination of themes of Celtic and Japanese art, for example, and often made into utilitarian objects (egg cups, lamps, furniture)
<4> is that art or craft?
<4> is there a difference?
<2> Herz: not sure.. he may or may not. :) I'm only speaking to my own definition
<1> one example of a better "display of art" is many of the galleries in the metropolitian museum of art. While the "work of art" is obstensively seperate from teh room it is housed in, I prefer when the entire setting/ambiance is taken into account
<3> Timur, I think that video games are a combination of arts to create a pleasurable sensory experience
<0> the widespread distribution of good copies of original art has been one of the greatest advances in society
<2> quality crafts done well imply artfulness in design and execution
<3> Its art as much as music, or video is
<2> Herz: well, then *** is art
<4> Timur, naturally
<4> Timur, but can craft also be art?
<0> useful art is cool
<0> Katey: artistic crafts and useful art
<4> If you look at asian pottery, for example.
<0> Timur: performance art?
<3> Timur, Is art tangable or abstract?
<3> tangible*
<0> Herzen: both
<4> Many fine pieces sit in the Smithsonian today, as works of art
<2> Katey: I'd say simply that there's a lot of overlap. There can be art without craft, and craft without art, but the best crafts have art; whereas much art, by contrast, need have no craft in the conventional sense
<1> *** is art, and Peter North is the maestro
<4> but they were made to be used
<4> utilitarian
<2> Herz: it can be either or both
<0> good music played on a bad instrument is bad art
<2> for example, Maximillian armor is both craft and art
<4> One could say the same thing about all sorts of useful objects
<1> katey: i love the idea of funtional objects as art.. such as the display of custom motorcycles they had at teh guggenheim
<0> good music played on a GREAT instrument by a great artist is GREAT art
<2> whereas Van Gogh is much art, little craft
<2> Oc: agree
<4> painting is considered a fine art
<4> it's not utilitarian
<4> Same with print making, sculpture, etc.
<0> Katey: yet it can be used as decoration for a room, so it IS useful
<1> hahahaha.. they just picked up this bus-driver on a hooker sting on c0ps
<5> oh, stfu.
<5> you are all bored!
<0> testy, testy
<3> I would argue that art has some degree of original creativity in it
<5> =)
<3> I could m*** produce a pot that someone finds beautiful aestecticly
<3> but is that art?
<3> No
<4> OcDoc, it's use is purely aesthetic though
<6> herzen i think art has content to it
<0> Herzen: some of the greatest art in history was copied
<5> navel-gazers
<4> OcDoc, it's not a useful object
<0> Katey: there is no such thing as "pure" esthetics
<7> http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/02/18/chavez.oil.ap/index.html : Chavez threatens to cut off oil to U.S
<0> Johan: his loss
<4> OcDoc, well, a painting that only hangs on a wall, and doesn't serve any other purpose, is decorative in its use
<0> Katey: okay
<4> Whereas a teacup, a plate, a basket or bowl
<4> etc
<6> katey not necessarily decorative eitherr
<4> they have an everyday use
<0> Katey: has other uses
<0> I don't see why that invalidates what I said
<6> some paitnings you might not want to hang on your wall but have aesthetics
<5> Bush faces reality:
<5> Bush Presses for Nuclear Energy Expansion
<5> By H. JOSEF HEBERT
<5> WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush on Saturday renewed his push for expansion of nuclear energy and sought support for plans to revive nuclear fuel reprocessing to deal with radioactive waste from commercial power plants.
<2> Katey: right, fine art is generally considered non-utilitarian
<1> ocdoc: I hide my wallsafe behind Elvis on Velvet, does that count?
<0> Lupine: yes
<2> except, book art, for example, tends to challenge that definition
<5> Velvis
<4> Timur, it's generally considered to be the line between art and craft
<7> ocdoc: Venezuela ships 1.5 million barrels of oil a day to the United States
<0> Timur: that has an educational use
<3> Back to the Future is on
<3> I consider that a work of art
<2> Katey: but there's a lot of overlap, nonetheless
<8> that number should be expressed as a total % of us imports, to be useful
<3> in terms of quality and medium
<0> Katey: well, aside from the fact that such lines tend to be artificial, it's not a line but rather a zone
<0> what purpose is served by drawing the line?
<4> OcDoc, Well, personally, I agree with you
<9> good. we need more nuclear energy
<5> yeah really
<2> then there's architecture
<8> we should have nuclear toasters
<7> http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/02/18/birds.india.france.ap/index.html : India, France get first bird flu cases
<2> http://www.cupola.com/html/bldgstru/artnouv/artnouv1.htm
<0> Katey: sometimes drawing lines helps with discussions to avoid confusion, even if they're not really well-defined lines
<1> Timur : in a less traditional area, I consider many fine firearms to be a work of art, especially those meticulously hand-fitted.. a gestalt of form and function.. speaking of which, I gotta go clean my pistols :-)
<5> nuclear is the best option for reliable energy, other than oil
<5> and oil is getting too costly
<8> usm, damn right, why dont we have a nuclear blant ov every block
<8> plant, on,
<5> Kardos: dunno. France does
<2> Lup: sure. The Phila Museum of Art has a selection of 16th and 17th century hunting rifles and shotguns, which are incredibly ornate and elaborate in design
<8> so why don't we!
<10> well we wouldn't need one on every block
<0> Timur: my fave example of that was an article in Time Magazine about a great architect ... the last paragraph described the great architect's own home that he designed for himself ... but he hadn't been able to move in yet because the roof leaked
<2> including mother-of-pearl inlays, etched/carved metal, etc
<0> ROFL
<8> we're lagging begind the europeans
<11> naah..i'm gonna start a hippie farm that relies on self-sustainable (spot the hyphen) energy
<2> Oc: lol
<8> the EU will be the next world power
<5> Kardos: because of eco-pussies
<5> whiners, obstructionists
<8> Zenabi: bicycles to run generators?
<0> Kardos: because the greens were allowed to tie them up endlessly in court
<4> time for me to split.
<4> ttyl
<7> http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/02/18/cartoon.roundup/index.html : 16 die in cartoon protests in Nigeria - Italian minister resigns; his T-shirt blamed for inciting riot -
<2> Oc: I know an architect in Phila. who had a corner building torn down, and put up a 'house' modeled on.. well, basically, a warehouse- one large open space, with walkways around the edges of the floors
<2> cya Katey
<0> bye Katey
<8> OcDoc: thats a stupid reason, oil pollutes much worse than nuclear
<5> we are behing Europe on nuclear energy usage
<5> *behind
<8> those greens need some scientisis to join their ranks
<8> yes, we are, majorly
<8> and thats what it all comes down to
<10> Kardos the Greens are not concerned about comparitive pollution
<8> whoever has the most energy wins
<0> Kardos: I know, but it doesn't have to be logical ... it's naked government power being abused
<6> timur are you interested in austrian art nouveau
<10> Kardos they want only 100% ideal solutions
<2> darn, I liked the art discussion more
<8> China's growth is stunted because they cant get enough oil (read energy)
<5> I smell some frustrated irrationality
<2> red: sure; I like Art Nouveau generally
<5> =)
<6> the art discussion was pedantic
<6> :/
<2> red: it's a start, meine freunde
<2> ;)
<0> Kardos: oh, they have lots of brain-dead scientists in their corner
<2> so are many discussions, regardless of theme
<0> redfish: the word pedantic is pedantic
<12> any scandinavians here? i need help with some words :P
<8> so anyway, if Bush increases nuclear and decreases oil (substantially) then he can be regarded as a success by the end of his term
<6> timur , read this article i wrote on wikipedia for hans makart, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Makart , gustav klimt worshipped him as an idol and he greatly influenced the art nouveau in austria
<6> ocdoc youre being pedantic
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