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Comments:
<0> President Lincoln insisted that the war was not about slavery or black rights; it was a war to preserve the Union. His words were not simply aimed at the loyal southern states, however -- most white northerners were not interested in fighting to free slaves or in giving rights to black people http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html
<1> ?
<2> Publius : http://searchirc.com/search.php?F=exact&T=chan&N=33&I=politics
<3> "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union" - ABRAHAM LINCOLN
<4> Look: The war was about secession. A primary reason for the secession was the slavery issue.
<3> Katey the difference is my ***ertions have historical truth and evidence behind them, whereas yours is just outright revisionist history
<1> Johan: I believe it is time for Mister Pub to join this forum
<0> Katey, it was not, it was about states rights to govern themselves
<4> OldHippie, right. States rights to preserve the institution of slavery.
<1> LOL
<1> The South *would not have seceded* if slavery was not involved. Slavery(cotton picking) was their number one economic resource
<0> Katey, you are very uninformed, you should learn the subject before taking a stance
<1> they traded cotton with England
<3> Publius it had already happened
<2> Publius : Yeah somebody must counterbalance that liberal ****
<1> what had?
<3> the war was started before the emmancipation
<4> OldHippie, heh. this subject is something people in my part of the country have a particular preoccupation with.
<4> I've been hearing, reading, learning about it for most of my life
<1> ROFL
<1> the emancipation proclamation was a genius litigating move
<1> you dopes
<3> he used the slaves, exploited them
<3> and they call him a hero
<3> its hilarious
<0> Katey, with the revisionist version only it seems Katey
<1> teh 13th and the emancipation proclamation were tactical movements
<1> and had nothing to do with Lincoln's true feelings. Lincoln supported the abolotion movement long before
<4> http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/missec.htm
<1> the only uninformed people here, are the ones taht act like Lincoln didn't abhor slavery
<4> A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.
<3> "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists.
<3> I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."
<3> - Abraham Lincoln
<4> Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth.
<4> ahem
<3> First Inaugural Address
<4> the secession was very much about preservation of the institution of slavery
<3> slaves were property
<0> Katey, why would poor farmers, who did not own slaves go to war over slavery? Does that make sense?
<3> they were being unconstitutionally deprived of their property
<4> More from Mississippi's secession statement:
<4> It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.
<4> It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.
<4> It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.
<4> It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.
<4> etc
<4> so...secession had nothing to do with slavery?
<4> Not according the people in Mississippi
<5> yes secession had everything to do with Slaves.
<0> It was also about the constitutional argument over whether or not a state had a right to leave the Union, and--of primary concern to most southern soldiers--the continuation of antebellum southern culture. Although the majority of Southerners had little interest in slaves, slavery was a primary interest of Southern politicians--and consequently the underlying cause of the South's desire to seek independence and state rights.
<1> ThomasWT: WOOOHOOO
<1> ThomasWT: thank you
<3> "That either the revenue from duties must be collected in the ports of the rebel states, or the port must be closed to importations from abroad, is generally admitted. If neither of these things be done, our revenue laws are substantially repealed; the sources which supply our treasury will be dried up; we shall have no money to carry on the government; the nation will become bankrupt before the next crop of corn is ripe. There will be nothing to furnish means of
<3> etc,etc
<3> New York Evening Post, March 2, 1861
<3> "What, then, is left for our government? Shall we let the seceding states repeal the revenue laws for the whole Union in this manner? Or will the government choose to consider all foreign commerce destined for those ports where we have no custom-houses and no collectors as contraband, and stop it, when offering to enter the collection districts from which our authorities have been expelled?"
<4> From South Carolina's secession declaration:
<4> We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have ***ume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution;
<4> they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and ***isted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrecti
<4> on.
<4> http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/scarsec.htm
<6> hola
<3> denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution
<4> yeah. you're right. secession had nothing at all to do with preserving the instutution of slavery. :)
<1> pilgrim: heya
<4> bmc, what sort of property do you think they're refering to?
<3> Katey slaves
<4> yep
<3> but this isnt a slavery issue
<0> Katey, no one said nothing at all. It was the catalyst, the final point of contention
<3> its a property rights issue
<4> bmc, lol
<4> okay
<6> Katey yep it had noting to do with slavery.
<4> :)
<3> not just property rights, either
<3> a minor part
<4> haha
<4> ok
<3> the war would have happened regardless
<3> the south was being raped
<1> pilgrim: we are currently experiencing the nice revisionism that feels that slaves had *nothing* to do with the civil war.
<1> heh
<4> From Georgia's Secession declaration:
<4> The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
<3> Katey also youre posting reasong for seceeding
<3> reasons*
<6> slavery was inded A issue of note at the time, was a determinant factor int he dis-similarity of North and South but, and this is most important, the whole Sucession movement began in 1791 with the crushing of what became known as the Whisky Rebellion
<4> http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/geosec.htm
<7> \quit
<7> ls -la
<4> bmc, yes I am
<3> thats a little seperate than war isnt it?
<6> read the papers of one Albert Galitan for a clear picture
<3> why did war break out from the states seceeding?
<4> bmc, the war was about the secession
<4> bmc, the secession was largely about slavery
<4> as I stated earlier
<4> Shall I go find another state's secession statement?
<6> Katey would this be like the platform of say the DNC and its obvious relationship to reality?
<3> no, youre selectively posting excerpts that fit your ***ertion
<3> not very helpful
<4> bmc, lol
<3> i think everyone can read them in their entirety
<4> that was the first ****ing sentence in the declaration
<3> for theirselves
<4> bmc, good
<4> I hope they do
<1> pilgrim: I'm not trying to be anal..but it is two "
<1> l's
<1> for educations sake
<1> haha
<3> as well as the DOI, federalist and anti-federalist papers, every legislation from contintental congress and the congress of the confederation
<8> mmmMMMMm home made thin-cripsy pizza
<3> and then how me where the fed government has authority to stop secession with military force
<9> secessin was about slavery -- read the Southern accounts
<3> show*
<6> Katey the question was one of a powerful Federal government who's will over-rides the statehouses of the several states in local issues or, the rights of the states except int he explicit matters of treatys and such with other powers. Read the text of the Missouri Compromise for a clear understanding of the mood, and the sentiment of that time
<3> the reasons for secession are irrelevant
<3> they had the right to secede for any reason whatsoever
<1> The Writings of Albert Gallatin (3 volumes, 1879).
<8> pilgrim: I got invited for the "public unveiling" of Liberty 7 at the kennedy space center :-)
<1> Gallatin, Albert. "The Land West of the Rockies." The Annals of America
<9> bmc-- show me where the Const gives the right secede for any reaons
<10> reasons are never irrelevant. They aren't more important than actions as some peopel think, but only a fool would call them irrelevant. :P
<3> AAAman it doesnt have to
<4> pilgrim`, but the issue that drove the matter to secession was slavery
<1> http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/guidedisplay.pl?index=G000020 <--- a research guide to Albert Gallatin's writings
<6> Lupine very cool
<8> all powers and duties not given to the federal government, are reserved to the states
<9> bmc -- It is not the right to stop, nowhere is the right to do it in the first place
<3> AAAman the federal government has no authority not expressly given by the constitution
<4> pilgrim`, as the statements from the seceding states clearly illustrates
<1> pilgrim: SWEET. you always have bad*** name recommendations
<1> thank ya
<4> "property rights"
<0> As someone here offered, go back to the Whisky Rebellion and see where the civil war started. At that time the issue was whisky, at the time of the session it was slavery.
<9> bmc --epxressly, no
<6> Katey yes...and no....as I said: read the Missouri Compromise
<9> bmc --read the Const
<3> AAAman the states have ALL authority not expressly forbidden by the constutution
<8> pilgrim: they surviving mercury astronaughts are supposed to be there..
<9> What authority is forbidden then
<3> not secession
<9> bmc is cornering himself
<3> its very simple
<6> Lupine and in honor of the event, they are going to launch you into permanant orbit? :)
<8> pilgrim: ahahahaha
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