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Comments:
<0> Although since then MS included a firewall in SP2, so thats no longer a problem
<1> So when you do get bit, you can go back to the rrecovery console and resstart the original kernel and lose all your settings but you dont have to reinstall the whole OS again...
<2> unless we're running vmware :)
<1> Your right I dont know it works, I simply have a laymans rough idea. very rough.
<1> I know I like it its already proven itself for me.
<1> Because of some stupid things I did
<3> Nohman Rebec gets on later at night... been here most of the week...
<4> it wouldn't stop any stupid thing you did
<1> No but it repaired it.
<0> Fr33Trade: no, it couldnt help avoid anything you would do yourself
<4> unless somehow you managed to exceed a program's memory space
<4> and then managed to run something
<1> And it prevents idiots like me from doing things that could **** it up
<0> no, it doesnt
<0> we told you what it prevents
<5> hank you for the voice
<1> But I ****ed up by installing a bios upgrade way too early before it was out for a long time.
<1> It wiped out my machine but all I had to do was recover using the special partition.
<1> Mo disks, not new installations, no fdisk
<0> yes, DEP would not help you there
<0> and most pcs now come with some kind of a system restore
<4> that would be the recovery partition included on nearly every IBM, HP, Dell
<4> etc
<0> which usually whipes your hard drive unfortunately
<1> Lithium the brand new ones. Dependingon OS. Windows is just implementing it as of sp2
<4> windows has nothing to do with it
<0> implementing what?
<4> recovery partitions have been around for a long long time
<1> and you can have it software only or you can have software cpu integration which i have
<6> system restore...feh
<0> no, no, and no
<2> Lithium.. give up man..
<1> Nomex, before I strike you, CPU integration on windows systems has not been
<1> Now I dont knwo about Macintosh I dont use it.
<4> wtf you do you mean by CPU integration?
<0> yea, i was about to ask
<2> CPU integration.. sounds like marketing speak..
<7> well, let's think of this as a possible learning experience, I guess
<1> And I do use linux, Hpux, Sunos, Bsd, Freebsd, but i never could really graphically understand any of it.. And i knwo intel bases systems with linux didnt have cpu integration
<4> are you talking about that intel DRM crap that they're working on with Microsoft?
<8> someone wiped their partition ?
<9> ***
<0> what is cpy integration?
<0> cpu*
<8> I can tell you a great software to get it back
<1> Its part of your processor which well let Lithium describe it.
<8> costs like $40
<10> ThomasWT, are you trying to tell us something?
<4> you are talking about that DRM stuff
<0> Fr33Trade: that has nothing to do with restore partitions
<1> Ok Lithium tell us how the CPU integrates with the Data Execution protection partition
<4> that microsoft intel security crap
<0> i already did, and it has nothing to do with what you were talking about
<1> OK THEN TELL US
<1> EDUCATE US
<1> If you can educate me I will happily learn.
<4> I'm trying
<4> give me a moment
<4> it's been like 8 months
<11> DEP seens like a bull**** way of forcing good coding practice, after the fact
<0> what do you want to know exactly?
<8> I screwed up and made my partitions unrecognizable -- it was like they were gone. But I got it all back
<1> yo dont have to be a prick about it, I never treat people so rudely when dont understand my areas of expertise.
<11> I'd have preferred that Intel wait with that ****
<0> <0> When we first learned about the heap and the stack and the execute bit, i asked my teacher why doesnt the CPU just check for it before executing any code for it. He was confused because he didnt know why. Well thats exactly what DEP does. it is just a hardware IF statement checking for the execute bit for whatever part of memory it is about to execute
<1> Hwo does the Intel CPU and the Windows DEP work together ? Literally I want to know, I want to learn.
<1> Im serious
<11> like, when they make their non-bw-compatible 64-bit line
<4> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/chips/0,39020354,39115407,00.htm
<4> that
<1> I want to learn
<0> read what i pasted
<1> Ok i will
<6> FT..thats high level ****
<11> Fr33Trade: memory is organized into pages/frames.
<0> yes
<11> each of them have a few flags ***ociated with 'em (usually set by the OS) that declare what's what.
<1> oK, i appreciate that much lithium but could you tell me a little more in laymans terms keeping in mind I am a CS idiot with no education in cs
<11> DEP merely checks the 'this page/frame is executable' bit before running code from it
<0> i think tweek is doing it
<1> Ok go tweek..
<0> and he just did
<11> that's it. tinfoil hat wearers, make of that whatcha will
<1> IM listening..
<0> tweek: exactly what i said
<0> only not as detailed
<12> dont talk to me about politics
<6> tweek they are lining up for that flick Friday
<11> I'm gonna get you high
<2> Da Vinci Code? .. it has angered Catholics, Albinos, and the French.. it must be good!
<11> 'cos it's Friday
<6> you from England vzz???
<11> you ain't got no job
<1> Tweek but that isnt explaing in laymans terms to no computer experts which most of us here are not how it works.
<11> you ain't got no money
<11> ... you ain't got nothin' to do
<6> Libertine..you bet
<0> Fr33Trade: ok....
<1> Page/frame to must people here including me means nothing
<11> Fr33Trade: dunno how I can make it a bit simpler than that.
<12> no im not from england
<4> all this because I had to point out the actual differences between xp home and pro
<4> heh
<6> well darn
<0> Fr33Trade: some viruses/worms work by forcing your computer to execute code from where it is not supposed to, DEP prevents it. THATS IT
<1> tweek you can start by remembering when you didnt know what a page frame was
<8> "Active Undelete" <--- works like a charm for recovering partitions, etc.
<6> I know most of the differences
<0> Fr33Trade: some viruses/worms work by forcing your computer to execute code from where it is not supposed to, DEP prevents it. THATS IT
<11> you can't just have memory chunks unorganized. it makes coding impossible basically, esp. with multiprocess OS's
<6> yep
<11> paging organizes memory into chunks.
<1> Lithium, ok, I can understand this somewhat
<1> Ok..
<6> XP 64 has a lot of DEP protection
<0> Fr33Trade: and that is all DEP will protect you from
<11> most processors can also swap chunks in and out from the hard drive.
<1> Thats sort of what I understood, I know I dont understand it like you guys do. but that was part of my conception of how it worked.
<11> most modern OS's have that capability.
<6> and..it works one hell of a lot better than XP 32..at least on this
<13> fr: without getting into specifics: DEP helps prevent the OS from running a certain type of malicious code.
<6> tweek yes..but I think they upped the protection on XP 64
<13> that type of malicious code is not that common for a normal home user.
<14> "Jodie Foster slams Bush" <- damn thats a hot headline
<11> a major security risk can occur when you're running code that's inside a data chunk. (most OS's also separate data from code.)
<8> credit card co. sends m a letter "Hi, we're rasigin all the fees"
<6> Lupine..which makes XP home edition a sitting duck
<1> Lithium how does it know where to and where not to execute code and where does the software part come into the process.
<11> because users can put whatever they want, generally, in the data section
<8> raising
<0> CryArvach is pulling a Fr33Trade
<6> US-Male write them back...I am dropping you
<4> us-male: you don't carry a balance do you? for shame! ;)
<8> I might
<0> Fr33Trade: windows allocates memory for certain things
<1> What does software DEP do along with the CPU that together does something ?
<11> making data sections non-runnable and making the processor check to see whether the chunk is able to be run ... that's DEP
<8> Nomex nope =)
<11> software DEP is on the OS level
<0> Fr33Trade: each time it does, it can set if that memory can be used to execute code inside it or not
<1> Thats as simple as I can ask it and as difficult as I can ask it.
<10> CryArvach, eh. They'll all just raise their fees as well
<8> it's not even my favorite card
<11> hardware DEP is at the CPU level
<11> if the OS is compromised, software DEP can be turned off
<10> Banks have you over a barrell, unless you hide your money in your mattress
<12> katey i still love you
<1> So tell me if I am wrong, Can the software tell the cpu which areas can not execute code ?
<11> if the boot-up procedure is compromised, for instance, software DEP can simply be turned off.
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