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Comments:
<0> Much more effective in any event
<0> This is getting inane
<0> We blew the **** out of Japan
<0> Repeatedly
<0> Severely
<0> Unquestionably
<1> JBl: Atomically.
<0> And they built themselves back into a functioning, charitable, free nation.
<1> Oh no.
<2> belatedly
<0> One nearly synonymous with prosperity.
<1> We built them back into a functioning, charitable, free nation.
<0> No
<1> They let us.
<0> We gave them the resources
<0> But they did it
<3> no they did not build themselves..the western powers rebuilt japan
<3> therough aid and liberal trade agreements
<1> JBl: We *built* it though. Japan didn't have any real workforce to speak of, after the war.
<0> Of course they did.
<1> Almost all of their government buildings, and whatnot, were made by the US Army.
<0> You think a lot of Americans were in Japanese factories?
<0> Or design rooms?
<0> Or cl***rooms?
<1> Not factories.
<0> Government buildings have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the prosperity of individuals.
<0> You can build the prettiest palace in the world
<0> But it doesn't change what happens outside its walls
<1> Everything else, though. We rebuilt the schools, the government buildings, the roads, etc.
<1> JBl: Careful. Your elephant is showing. ;)
<0> I can think of about 95 examples in Iraq that demonstrate that, Astro.
<3> the people in the drawing rooms were trained in large part by westerners, directly or indirectly
<1> Sure it does. It has a direct impact on what happens outside its walls.
<0> Wrong.
<0> Absolutely wrong.
<1> SOMEONE has to build it.
<0> Absolutely wrong and unsupportable.
<1> SOMEONE has to clean it.
<0> No palace in the world built a country.
<0> This is your liberalism come to roost
<0> That somehow when you create the perfect government, the people will fall in line.
<1> JBl: Did I claim that?
<0> Yes, you absolutely did.
<1> No. I simply pointed out that the economy is certainly stimulated by government spending.
<0> No, it is not.
<3> ive never head a liberal as u say claim that japan couldnt have been rebuilt without western influence
<0> It is only hurt by government spending.
<1> All the moreso, when its other governments, besides your own, doing the spending.
<0> Excuse me, Zach, nobody's said that.
<0> Perhaps if you were literate, you wouldn't be so quick to jump on the liberal bandwagon.
<1> JB: No. Its hurt by taxes. Not government spending. Those aren't the same. Heh.
<0> Excuse me, Astro, but of course it is.
<3> i just wonder when people will get it together and stop acting like apes
<0> Government's only source of revenue is taxation and fines.
<0> You're the ape, Zach.
<1> JBl: Then why the huge economic boom, post WW2, after M***IVE government spending?
<0> In Japan?
<1> JBl: That ***umes the government has to make as much as it spends.
<0> Or in the US?
<3> i win! land! food! mates! those are the causes of most human behavior
<1> It doesn't.
<1> JBl: the US.
<0> The huge economic boom, post WW2, came on the heels of tax cuts and removal of federalized impediments to life
<0> That's what happened
<1> Zach: I want to get the contract, take the date out to eat, and go back to my house and ****, eh? :P
<0> Look at the terrible economic depression before WW2
<1> JBl: Uh.
<0> Look at the terrible economic depression that was WW2
<0> Both involved high taxes
<0> High government interference
<1> WW2 was a source of M***IVE government spending.
<3> some people cant even engage in discussion without manifesting these traits
<0> Large government
<3> lol
<0> Yes, Astrodog, and see what happened.
<1> Like insanely large spending.
<1> And the economy shot up like a rocket.
<0> WW2 was a time of terrible individual prosperity in the US.
<3> Fed highway system
<0> Are you guys mentally ill?
<1> Because the government didn't tax as much as it spent.
<0> You just don't get it, do you.
<3> prime example
<0> That's not even germane to the issue, Astrodog.
<0> It's not a prime example of anything, Zachary.
<1> JBl: You, for some reason, seem to ***ume that the government can only spend as much as it makes. As if its a zero sum game.
<0> Of course government can employ people.
<1> It isn't.
<0> It is the least efficient employer in the United States.
<1> The government prints the money, remember? :P
<0> It is the least answerable employer.
<0> And it funds its employees through theft.
<3> its a prime example of what hes discussing..m***ive spending that created economic boom
<0> Ask yourself how well it would work if everyone in the US worked for the government, Zach.
<0> Ask yourself that.
<0> What's the answer.
<1> JBl: The government doesn't need to tax, to spend.
<0> What's the answer.
<1> That's what you're missing.
<1> It can borrow, almost endlessly.
<0> This isn't tag team, I want Zachary's response.
<3> That is a ludicrus question that has more to do with your predjudice rather than the subject at hand
<1> JBl: Its a non-sequiter question.
<0> I want your answer to the question.
<0> Calling it ludicrous isn't an answer.
<1> It would work poorly.
<0> Exactly.
<0> And do you want to admit why?
<1> By the same token, if the government didn't employ anyone... it would also work poorly.
<0> Government would work poorly
<1> Everything would work poorly.
<3> im not going to let u frame the argument by introducing a stupidly exaggerated question like that'
<0> And to the extent that government's functions are necessary in the economy, the economy would work poorly
<0> But that's a very small extent
<0> Zachary, then you are not prepared to debate these issues.
<1> JBl: What this illustrates, more than anything, is that both extremes ****. :P
<0> Because you can't respond to anything that doesn't fit in your little index card telemarketing folder of questions and answers
<0> The one you've been spoonfed for years by your propagandists, Zach.
<3> No one here is advocating absolute governmental takeover of the private sector
<1> No government, and total government don't work. So, lets go on past that one. :P
<0> No, Astro, let's focus on that.
<1> That extremes don't work?
<0> Exactly why would everyone working for government fail?
<3> lol..yes let JBL fram the argument! that way he will win! lol
<1> JBl: Same reason socialism does. *shrug*.
<0> And that reason is, Astro?
<0> Or those reasons
<1> JBl: Complete and utter lack of accounting for human nature.
<0> Uhhhhh
<0> No, I'm sorry, the judges say that's not sufficient
<0> "Human nature" is just a restatement of your original claim, that it wouldn't work.
<0> Because with human nature, it wouldn't work.
<0> Yeah, but why?
<1> People want more ****, than other people. They're greedy. Capitalism has the distinct claim to being a method to use that greed for good.
<3> anyway spending money on infrastructure is usually a good thing
<0> I don't want more **** than other people
<0> That really has never affected my judgment on anything
<0> And certainly, people wanting, say, more coca cola has not caused Coca Cola any duress
<1> JBl: You have a job?
<0> We're not in a Coca Cola shortage, are we?
<0> Of course I do
<1> Why?
<0> But I'm asking you why you think that system wouldn't work.
<0> And you haven't answered.
<0> I'd be happy to explain it for you, but I want you to try first.
<0> Because I don't believe you can.
<1> JBl: I answered, and you don't seem to agree with me. *shrug*.
<0> I think you and Zach dismiss my question about it because you know your ideologies break down at those levels
<1> JBl: Frankly, its not an absolute, either. If you can get people to be robots, socialism works fine.
<3> Why wouldnt that system work? because it would consolidate power to a degree that the people in control would become corrupt on a level not seen yet in the US
<0> You just said Human Nature, Astro.
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