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Comments:
<0> td, you really dont get it.
<1> i'd rather have someone who is actually WILLING to work
<2> that pretty much says it all....from over 17,000 arrests in 1997...to less than 500 in 2003....
<3> i say we allow full-on drug dealing, because it helps the economy
<3> and hurting drug dealers, hurts the economy
<4> I find it strange that so many people seem to think that there is a "simple solution" to this problem
<1> again, why not just give them work permits?
<3> why dont they go home and apply for them?
<4> I understand the appeal of such an idea...but c'mon.
<1> at least that way they are documented
<0> Only one white guy in 10 years has asked me for a job and I am hiring him.. My employees are largely legal residents, and sub contractors, my foreman is a legal resident hispanic, with a california contractors license which you could never get as a illegal, and he graduated from high school in Richmond and is 37 years old.
<3> why dont they do what everyone else does and apply for work visas
<0> I pay him $40 an hour.
<4> Any resolution that has any hope of being effective will likely involve a number of different angles
<0> td, Because a typical work visa takes 6 or more years to happen.
<3> Well then, they wait 6 years
<1> if you find a violent illegal immigrant, send them to Gitmo as a terrorist
<1> its very simple
<4> heh. td, that's easy to say
<3> Mexico isnt so bad that you cant wait 6 years
<1> these MS-13 types are no better than terrorists in my opinion
<3> its not like your locked in a prison cell
<4> But it's very unlikely that "so wait the six+ years!" would be very persuasive.
<0> td, if they wait 6 years to start construction labor and then by the time they get trained to do more advanced quality construction they are too old.
<3> Well Katey, lock down the border so that 6yrs is forced upon them
<0> The body breaks down, construction is truly a young mans trade for the actual work, or very cautious and well built adults.
<0> My body gave out because of an accident at about 40 years old.
<4> Another aspect of this situation, that I read about recently, is that there was a 'baby boom' in Mexico about 15-20 years ago.
<2> if they come here wanting to become citizens...thats fine...if they're coming just to find work..with no intention of ever integrating into society...but still expecting all the benefits of said society....thats a different matter...
<4> So that means a lot of young people looking for work and a future.
<5> td- mexico MAY not be, but El Salvidor is, Equidor is, etc etc
<1> i seriously don't see anything wrong with employing willing people who come from mexico, because they can make better money here in the USA than they can in Mexico to feed their families
<0> Ded, The ones I know almost immediately take english cl***es and how can they integrate if they live in fear.
<6> Fr33Trade, maybe someone should hammer Fox and the Mexican government, you know, quit the bribery and rev up the Mexican economy instead of sending all the people here for jobs.
<5> td- people are risking thier lives to come to the US, many dying before they get here... you think they are going to wait 6 years? unlikely
<4> TheTailor, I agree with that
<0> I prefer to be honest most work here and do not become citizens, unless they truly desire it very deeply.
<0> I dont want citizens of convenience I want citizens who love america..
<0> And if they do fine..
<4> The single thing that could do the most to reduce the tide of immigration would be improvement of the Mexican economy
<3> FT: you seem to know only the good of illegals, do you know any bad points
<7> comceptually it's easy: control the border, and use work visas.
<4> td-, illegals are just people. Like most people, the majority are decent folks and some are not.
<3> Rush is having a **** fit on this article i posted 20 mins ago
<7> but nobody has really tried to control the border hard enough
<3> in here
<0> td, I was born around illegals I have dealt with theme every year of my life, did i tell you about my home town and the illegals who triple the population every june ? and how its the most profitable time of the year for the economy of the city ?
<7> and part 2 is worthless without part 1
<1> it is obviously not OUR fault that the mexican government is so screwed up and the mexican economy is so screwed up, but man oh man, its pretty freakin sad that we have one of the worlds poorest 3rd world countries just south of our border
<0> Did you ever hear me tell that story..
<3> I did
<0> Ive seen apple growers on TV warn that with no illegals no apples get picked..
<0> And who knows better than them
<5> I honestly wonder what % of illegal immigrants come from mexico
<3> Right, so you dont want to admit that there is problems
<0> And the point is, I dont support illegals, I want the illegals to be legal.
<7> poor countries can happen anywhere. Actually if they were not poor, they would not come here for work
<4> A lot of immigrants send a substantial portion of their income back home
<5> My gut feeling is that 50% or more of illegals don't come from mexico
<1> FT, I find it hilariously funny that human rights groups have not spoke up about the fact that all that food rotting on the ground not getting picked is so wasteful
<3> wait till they send their social security checks home
<6> Amnesty is no answer.
<7> we aren't getting a large influx of illegal Canadian workers, because life in Canada is better than in Mexico
<4> I've read a few articles about how that is becoming a more and more significant factor in the Mexican economy
<1> work permits is NOT amnesty
<4> amnesty alone isn't an answer
<4> But I think it could be part of an overall approach.
<5> the majority of latino immigrants I have met, are from south of mexico
<0> US_Male, that will be Bushs point in his speech tonight, that border security (Attempts) are real and serious this time, after Reagan noone did anything about border security.. Bush is saying we wil lhave both, but as the crew of Chris Wallaces Sunday program said, We dont know if any amount of border security can actually stop them.
<6> I don't.
<0> Kobushi, 99% i have known are from mexico.
<6> NO amnesty whatsoever.
<7> FT: I hope he really means it.... he mst really *do* it though
<3> In my opinion these national guardsmen arent going to do anything, but let Bush prove me wrong
<1> FT, remember in 2000 and in (I think it was 94 or 96) Clinton gave m*** amnesty, no one said a freakin word
<4> Eh. It's more practical than trying to round up 12 million people
<0> Frankly I am more trusting of Mexicans than people further south, although Brazilians have a good reputation, and some others do.. People from war torn countries I worry about..
<1> suddenly Bush mentions "work permits" and everyone is going freakin nuts
<7> work permits are good
<7> we just need a controlled border
<0> Gangs should be deported Immediately, Criminals immediately, Thier fingerprints will be checked against the national fingerprint database and some crimes will be solved..
<7> 1) control border 2) issue work permits to non-criminals
<4> But amnestly needs to be limited and combined with better border security and an easier process for legal immigration for poorer and less skilled people.
<0> People living on welfare and not working should be deported unless they can show they work most the time..
<3> how do you tell who is a non-criminal
<7> td, background check
<3> of people crossing the border
<1> US, i tottaly agree with that
<0> So Im not for just sympathy for all illegals, I am sympathetic to the very hard working ones who want to learn english because they know if you speak english you can demand more pay.
<1> i am not saying we let every single mexican in here whenever they feel like hopping the border
<7> also, observing their behavior -- you can revoke a work permit if they affiliate with a gang
<0> US, Ditto
<5> Fr33Trade I'd like to see a study done of what % of latino immigrants are of what nationality; it'd be difficault though I haven't seen anyone try
<1> US-Male i say we lock up violent offenders as terrorists and send them to Gitmo
<4> Any work permit program should have the potential for full legal residency in it somewhere though
<4> and, down the line, naturalization
<7> Hemi well if they have committed a violent crimer here in the US then yeah same pnuishment as any criminal
<0> KoBushi, I am not sure, and I dont claim to know the facts, I have heard 50% are not latino, I dont know if thats true. I did hear on authority that 50% came here legally and never went back to immigraiton.
<1> i mena essentially what is the difference between Al-Qaeda and MS-13
<7> if it was in Mexico, make them go back
<6> Legal residency over time sure, no giveaway.
<0> They never Re applied or went back when there time was up
<0> TT, legal residency quickly a bureacratic program will be a joke.. But citizenship over a long time, end of the line as Bush says.
<7> making Mexico deal with these issues will benefit everyone over time
<7> it will be good for them to face their problems, and good for us when they make progress
<0> Citizenship and legal status are distinctly different and people should always keep this in thier mind.
<6> Fr33Trade, that I can agree with.
<1> US_Male with whoes money? our's or Mexicos?
<1> hehehe
<5> We should fine Mexico $100 for everyon who illegally crosses the boarder mabe? ;)
<7> Hemi: what money ?
<0> Legal status means they can work legally and pay taxes, but they can not vote, they can not have permanent protection from deportation like an american citizen can.
<1> i mean with your plan of "making mexico deal with these issues"
<4> KoBushi, heh. how would that be enforced? :)
<2> KoBushi, how about a couple of free barrels of oil? :)
<7> HemI: we have to pay to control our border
<1> how do you make someone deal with the issues if they don't have the money to do so
<0> heh
<4> Fr33Trade, right. Basically a green card
<7> HemI: controlling the border makes Mexico deal with their problems
<4> legal resident
<0> Making mexico deal with its issues hasnt worked for 100 years.
<0> Katey exactly
<1> thats exactly what i am getting at
<0> Why should the american government give a **** ? Unless Fox is a true reformer and I have my doubts.
<7> Hemi: you want Mexico to give us money to control the border ? Good luck if you can get them to pay half you'd be very lucky
<2> perfect solution! "Ok Mr Illegal alien...you can come in...but you have to bring 2 barrels of oil with you!"
<4> US_Male, that's an important point
<4> Mexico has had little incentive to reform
<1> US_Male, well, how about we make Mexico give us oil for controlling their illegal populace in the USA=)
<7> sure MExico is half-responsible... but they aren't serious
<1> hehehhehe
<5> Katey it wouldn't, but it would curb the national debt ;)
<0> Or maybe FOx is for real but if the rest of the government is corrupt and nepotistic then how can he alone do it.
<4> KoBushi, only if you could collect on it. :P
<7> Hemi: how about we control our border and then they are forced to deal with their population
<5> Katey no, collection dosn't matter
<2> ah well..time to flee..cheers kids
<5> Katey fiat currency remember? :)
<6> Fr33Trade, *if* the rest of the government is corrupt?
<0> it requires a voter revolt or maybe someone like Pinochet to turn their economy around and create a good economy like Chile has.
<1> People will still find a way over heard
<1> here
<0> Though the last part I dont say with much seriousness.
<7> oh yeah nothing is 100%
<1> you can only slow it down a little
<6> Fr33Trade, Mexico is corrupt on every level.
<0> Except that its true he made Chile a well to do country.
<0> TT so how do you deal with it ?
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