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Comments:
<0> whats is all this imablance set mode -b stuff?
<1> not voting IS a form of voting
<2> I don't really care for the idea of compulsory voting. Candidates are not entitled to your vote. They should have to earn it.
<3> if they gave an undecided box then i would be all for it being compulsory heh
<3> but without that they can kiss my ***
<1> not voting is the same as 'none of the above'
<2> I bet voter turnout would skyrocket if there was a binding "none of the above"
<3> cause i aint being forced to vote for no one
<3> DiscoTaco, yeah
<4> Nemes, they need a "kiss me arse" option
<0> I think this is what happened: Bush and Rummy want to go into iraq and change the regime.. they lean heavily on the " Intelligence services " CIA etc... to find convenient and fitting evidence that backs the case for war. Blair does the same with MI6 .. making them also present twisted intelligence , you know alterring the wording in reports to make the Iraq threat sound more dangerous... its sold to the world and by Powell when he went t
<0> sorry didnt mean to put that up again
<3> katey, hehe
<2> Katey: that would be on the Northern Ireland ballots.
<5> ha
<3> Steve1001, regime change is fine by me, just so long as i am told thats what the plan is from the start
<4> "And, the final vote tally is....Conservative party 25%, Liberal Party 25%, and the Kiss Me Arse vote...oh my! 50%!"
<3> i dont think regime change should be illegal internationaly under certain criteria
<3> strict criteria but none the less.
<1> Steve1001 but by believing that you have to acknowledge all of the worlds politicians in the mid 90's making those statements about intelligence
<5> Carson Kressley (the blonde guy from 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy') came out to his mother the day before the first episode of the show aired
<5> he's like the gayest one of the group
<3> so places like iraq and people like sadam and mugabe can be forced out legaly
<5> how' dhis mother not know?
<5> haha
<4> L0c0, she couldn't figure it out before then?
<3> thats would soot me fine
<5> Katey: that's what i said ahha
<5> Katey: Oprah's gonna have the guys from the show on tomorrow to talk about when they came out and what it was like growing up not knowing who they were and/or with the discrimination, etc
<4> Nemes, efforts like that need to be persued through strong international institutions. Otherwise the legitimacy of the effort is ****ed.
<2> would they just ****ing ban *!~*@* already?
<6> In the 19th century we experienced the last similar rise of jihadism threatening the West. At that time the scene was Sudan, the players were a reluctant England and a religious leader called the Mahadi. A British national hero (Gordon) needed to be sacrificed, and a change of government in London needed to ensue before the ponderous machinery of the British Empire could bear upon the problem. When it did, thousands of the Mahadi's followers an
<3> you know what would be a good idea, some sort of international reality tv politics show
<3> heh
<3> i bet it would be a hit
<7> we have that....
<1> to say only bush admin, and only after 2001, did people insist iraq was a threat, is completely dishonest debate. to say bush lied, and nobody else PRIOR to him even being in d.c. not having made the exact same claims is pretty ignorant
<3> as with big borhter and all the rest
<0> maybe, I see your point Nemes , but.... then we would have to be consistant and go into every bad regime..... not just the bad regimes with lots of oil... we would then have a moral case for going into Zimbabwe , and parts of indonesia and somalia..... once you allow that idea of pre emptive attacks...which are the nasty regimes that you choose...and which are worth ignoring... where the line?
<7> its called the UN dealing with world issues
<3> katey, yeah
<6> The battle against holy war and its mental aberations is not pleasant, nor cheap, but it is a battle which once started MUST be brought to toal completion for the alternative is far worse.
<2> No, we don't "have to be consistent and go into every bad regime." It's not an all-or-nothing proposition.
<3> Steve1001, depends if the strict criteria is reached, i mean sadam clearly killed kileld loads of kurds maliciously, mugabe has killed thousands
<3> thats enough for me
<6> Mgabe is a pig
<0> But who decides whisch regimes warrant invasion ? do we trust the US to make that decision?
<3> pilgrim`, amen
<6> Steve I woudl rather trust the US
<1> Steve1001 USA didnt make that decision, Saddam did
<7> we will let France decide...
<1> any other way of thinking is not being honest with yourself
<3> Str, an international body adhering to strict guidlines and a strict criteria
<0> Saddam was bad....I know... but he wasnt a threat to the us which was the case for war
<3> no wavering from it
<7> wait....wasn't France in charge in 1936?
<2> Steve1001: The nation decides by way of their representatives, the same way most every other policy decision is determined in a democratic republic.
<6> international... yeha. right
<6> no
<8> Disrespect
<3> i mean if we cant agree as nations together that mugabe is a bastard and need taking out, and that genocide is happening in the sudan, then whats the point in having an org like the UN?
<0> Disco taco... but thats an internal decision your talking about... when its INternational.. things should go through an internation Body like the UN I think...
<3> we need something new me thinks
<3> better organised
<2> Steve1001: the UN can get stuffed. The UN is toothless without America's military ***ets.
<1> to claim Saddam had no decision in his own fate when he had over 13 years and dozens of chances and so many people sticking up for him is just absurd
<1> it was his decisions that led to his removal
<6> the UN ...isn't that run by the man who butchered the Tutsi?
<2> Steve1001: If American hegemony bothers Europe so much, the surest way they can reduce it is by taking on the primary responsibility of nationhood and provide for their own defense instead of living under that provided by the United States.
<3> i kida agree you know cause the UN frustrates the hell out of me sometimes with its indecision and inaction
<3> rly does.
<6> when the UN General on site in Rwanda said: "I knwow here the weapons cache is, I can secure it, and a genocide will happen if I do not" his BOSS the dep direc of Africa at that tiem on Kofi Annan said "No, do nothing, leave it"
<1> and if the usa didnt stand up for oppressed ppl, and instead followed the un and euro's examples, I'd ****ing hate to see what the entire mideast would be like now
<0> Disco taco...the Us doesnt have the only good military on the planet.. I know to the American ear this is not popular... but Europe has collectivly a lot of personell and hardware...but we were not for the war... mostly... and not being for the invasion...... seems to have been a wise thing..
<6> 3/4 million dead later... I am now to trust the UN?
<0> who killed 3/4 of a million?
<0> huh?
<6> Steve study the history fo Rwanda
<1> if we followed the un's advice there would have been nuclear war in the 60's. when nobody believed us that the ussr had missiles in cuba and their fingers on the trigger.
<6> I would NEVER trust the UN
<6> ever
<3> yeah figured thats what you were talking about
<4> I think that efforts to dislodge bad leaders and bad regimes don't always have to take the form of military attacks anyway
<0> well did the usa do anything in rawanda?
<4> or not exclusively
<3> rwanda and the sudan
<3> loads been murdered
<9> Abusive Domain or User
<6> Steve please review the facts then we can talk
<2> Katey: they rarely do take the form of military attacks.
<4> Military is just one tool in the toolbox
<3> true
<0> the UN did well in kosovo and stopping ethnic cleansing in the balkans
<6> heh
<3> diplomacy is the better tool 99% of the time
<0> or at least did reasonably
<4> I disagree
<3> but military action clearly has it place
<4> the UN wrung its hands for years
<2> Steve1001: if they had, would you be bitching about American unilateralism for that as well?
<6> I know a fellow who was in theater ther. I am nto so proud of the UN
<6> UN DOES do a good job of raping babies though
<10> mmmm... Cambells chicken soup and hot sauce
<2> You really can't have it both ways. Either American interventionalism is undesireable, or it isn't.
<4> Which is part of a serious problem. International institutions lack the teeth to really accomplish much
<3> pilgrim`, going a bit too far there bud unless you have proof
<6> not a maidenhead will remain unplucked when the UN is in town
<3> i agree the UN can and does bolox things up often and is toothless allot of the time
<0> I think the Un is not perfect.... but unilaeralism has prooved to be a bad thing too... work with the Un I say..make it better.. but dont make it just a tool for the USA to get its way... wheich is what the right want in the US
<6> Nemes the situatiosn in Africa are fully docuemnted
<8> Abusive Domain or User
<3> but raping babies is not being commited by UN troops or members
<2> Katey: It depends on the international institution. The UN is a non-exclusive body, which means the kleptocrats, dictators and all-around ****bags have the clout to defend their own interests.
<2> This is why the UN is toothless; because its mechanisms are available to the ****bags and free nations alike.
<3> yey i just gor Rawshooter Premium :)
<3> i can convert my raws now
<3> when i get my new toy
<3> heh
<10> prey tell what has the USA gotten its way in?
<0> The UN needs change... so we should change it... but it did its job well in the balkans for example...wasnt toothless then... we should help the Un not destroy it in favour of unilarealism.
<10> wait wait wait
<2> Did its job well in the Balkans? Holy ****, is that a joke?
<10> <+Steve1001> The UN needs change... so we should change it... but it did its job well in the balkans <-- WTF?!?! are you talking about
<11> hrm, how the hell do ya tell when spaghetti noodles are done, heh
<0> the intervention to get Slobbodan Melosovich... was effective
<10> yes the UN did so great the dutch helped load people into trucks that were to be executed
<0> not quick enough... but we removed him
<10> the UN didn't do ****
<10> it was Nato NUMB nuts
<12> Thanks for the +v
<2> Europe sat and watched the Balkans like retarded marmosets as sectarian skirmishing erupted into full-scale genocide and a war that embroiled an entire region of the continent until, once again, the U.S. showed up and said, "OK Europe, come along now. We're going to show you what to do when this kind of thing starts bubbling up again..."
<0> if people here are going to swear ...why even talk...
<12> bonsoir
<10> then make ****ing sense instead of being an ignorant ***wipe
<2> and only AFTER the U.S. came to the rescue did the U.N. bother to lift a finger regarding the Balkans.
<6> the UN has, in every theater save one, proved as much, if not more of a problem then the situationthat existed prior to intervention. Exception: Cyprus
<3> RustyFord, man why go down that rod? the guy has made some good points as well as bad
<3> relax man and debate :)
<10> i refuse to debate with a revisionist piece of ****
<0> TACO... thats not true... sorry it wasnt the USA that started the un to do something..that maybe what u read or heard... in the states.. which wouldnt surprise me...but it aint the truth
<10> and he has made NO points
<3> i sit here and all i see now is you lot ganging up on him and becoming ever more crude
<6> the UN was founded iirc in 1949 in San Fran
<10> but i understand he is your boy nemes
<3> thats not .. well its just not....
<3> heh
<10> where was UN during Rwanda?
<2> Europe's jaw-dropping paralysis while a whole section of the continent erupted into war indicates they're just not ready to be left at home without a babysitter yet. So the next time they're tempted to whine about American "empire," they'd do well remember how it came to be and why it's still in their back yard.
<6> I am somewhat familair with the situations in Katanga, Biafra, later probelms with the Congo, Rwanda, the Naminian situation 30 years back. and others
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