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Comments:
<0> budhism also believes in it.
<1> that's a pretty shallow understanding of the nature of German support for Hitler. It was a lot more than economics, as important as that was.
<2> Hitler blamed Versailles and Bolshevism on the Jews, among other things.
<0> I believes in a karma which well i wont get into it
<0> but I dont know I have never read where Ghandi said he believe literally in the hindu doctrines of inferior castes.
<2> And the Germans blamed Versailles for the suffering that they endured during the period of depression and inflation.
<3> |bob -- I think you have put the cart before the horse. Germans were looking for a scapegoat regarding Versaille and WWI
<0> Timue Wh ohas a shallow understanding ?
<4> Freemrkts: he viewed the black africans as animals.
<1> ok, now we're off to a totally separate, unrelated topic
<2> (Wrongly, but that's not relevant.)
<1> also, there are many flavors of ice cream
<1> and did you know ice cream is made of milk and milk is from cows?
<0> Libertine, I have never heard that nor seen that. What is your evidence ?
<4> Freemrkts: he fought for equal rights for himself and other indians; but he did not want to extend it to the tribes.
<4> Freemrkts: lots; lemme finish my pizza and ill return
<2> Timur: Hardly. The Holocaust was the ultimate in collective punishment.
<0> Hitler gave germans back pride in an evil way the way reagan did to americans in a positive way after vietnam
<1> Pickle: Agree
<1> and totally unmerited, at that.
<0> Hitler was evil dont think for a minute I would question that, a very evil and ignorant man
<5> AAAman: if they were upset about losing the war, what does it matter what peace terms they got? They were a lot better than what the soviets offered later on.
<0> But he did help the german peopel rise from their status as european dogs.
<1> as opposed to the collective guilt of Germans for supporting Hitler and genocide, which is huge, and hence, bombing the crap out of Germany was totally justified.
<2> Timur: And that is illustrative of why collective punishment is generally considered illegal under international law. It is rarely deserved.
<1> Free: at others' expense.
<0> The point is the Marshall plan existed fro a reason.. So we wouldnt have world war 3 in Europe or Japan
<1> Pickle: I think Germany deserved everything it got in WWII.
<0> Timur see above.
<1> see above where
<0> Hitler was evil dont think for a minute I would question that, a very evil and ignorant man
<2> Timur: I don't think that Germany was a case of collective punishment.
<0> And I emphasise ignorant.
<4> Freemrkts: here is a neat article; http://www.trinicenter.com/oops/gandhi.html
<1> its 10 pm and I just got home
<4> "Forced to share a cell with black people, he wrote: "Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought among themselves."'
<2> Timur: Individuals in Germany suffered punishment commensurate to their responsibility for the actions of the Nazi government.
<1> its not hitler's evil purely that's the issue; the issue is the broad and overwhelmign support he had
<2> Timur: Uninvolved Germans were hardly punished beyond restrictions on their ability to self-govern.
<0> Libertine, maybe in his situation that was a fact. What does it matter ?
<1> Pickle: well, one would like to believe that, but..
<5> Pickle: except for those who were useful to allied intelligence
<4> Freemrkts: there is actually a lot of material on gandhi's early life in Africa; ironically it is where he first is said to be a champion of civil rights; but critics argue he sought rights for himself and other indians only - not the black tribes.
<1> baby Germans were bombed and killed/injured, while a lot of Nazis got to S. America, Canada, the US, Australia, etc
<0> If it was in fact true while he was imprisoned then it was true, was he not talking about other prisoners ? Not the whole black race ?
<0> Timur, Its more than evil its ignorant.
<2> Timur: That was done as a matter of executing war, not punishing.
<0> Hitler was ignorant
<1> right, war
<2> The punishment followed the war.
<4> Freemrkts: eh, i suppose it doesn't matter - just saying that hitler's views on some races being superior to others was shared by men that we seem to respect today...
<1> but an aspect of war includes punishment, generally
<4> sad .. but true still.
<2> War is not collective punishment, necessarily, and WWII was not.
<1> well... I'd say it'd depend
<2> The Armenian genocide was both war and collective punishment.
<1> question of degree, again
<2> Darfur is.
<0> As ignorant as the people who support the death of Arabs or Palestinians because frankly they hate them deep down in side. And I dont care if 50% of arabs were vile and evil, I will defend till I die (Not to the death) but till I die the 50% who are innocent.
<0> Now I must eat.
<0> Ciao and chow
<1> I wonder where you get those %s
<1> just because there are two ideas, doesn't mean the people holding them are evenly divided.
<0> Timur from thin air as examples. you want to imply more ?
<0> Yes you do
<1> just asking a question.
<0> thats one of your faults.
<6> Freemrkts, chow
<1> asking questions might be a fault, but that doesn't negate the validity of the question.
<1> which, apparently, as so many are, will remain unanswered.
<0> Cya 2|!:)
<6> its the other way around
<7> Bravo Freemrkts! It's far too often that defense of the innocent casualties of the Iraq war is equated with hating America, loving the terrorists, or thinking Saddam was a great guy. No one is speaking up for the innocents.
<8> Freemrkts NITE NITE!!
<1> http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2001/p3a.html#terrorism
<5> Libertine: well, indians had a great tradition of constructive civilization that showed they didn't have put up with British nonsense. Black Africans didn't.
<1> (Palestinians in 2001)
<1> # An overwhelming majority, ranging between 81%-87%, does not view Palestinian violent acts against Israelis as acts of terrorism. Yet an overwhelming majority, ranging between 88%-92%, believes that the international community does view these acts as acts of terrorism.
<4> eh.. i still wish we'd charge the prisons at gitmo... seems unamerican to delay justice this long.
<4> prisoners; typo
<1> # While 94% would view as an act of terrorism a future use by Israel of chemical and biological weapons against Palestinians, only 26% would view the same act as terrorism if carried out by Palestinians against Israelis
<1> see, those are facts. not a facile ***umption of 50%
<8> Libertine - why -- they are terrorists - war is still going on - many war prisoners don't get trials, and remain in prisons until wars are over...
<9> hey
<4> Kaliuna: they are not war prisoners tho, POWs have rights these guys do not.
<9> Lupine you here
<9> Lupine have you seen the usb turntable
<9> Twobar have you see this
<9> a usb powered turntable
<8> Libertine -- oh ya -- tell me about POWs rights??
<6> haha
<4> Kaliuna: thats why they are never called POWs.
<9> plays the vinly via usb
<9> Twobar no joke
<4> Kaliuna: read here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POW
<6> gpoo, got url ?
<7> Timur- But responding to an opinion poll does not make one "vile or evil", which was Freemrkt's original point. Lots of citizens in lots of political situations have expressed support for acts of violence. This makes their ideas and beliefs wrong, but it still doesn't mean they deserve to die.
<1> When asked about their feelings towards suicide bombing operations against Israeli
<1> civilians, a ratio of (56.2%) still either strongly support or somewhat support such operations
<1> compared with (49.7%) in May 2005 and (75.6%) in April 2003. however, there has been a
<1> steady rise in ratio of those who oppose such operations from (29.3%) in April 2003 to
<1> (38.0%) in May 2005 and to (40.7%) this month.
<8> Libertine -- wiki -- sorry I don't trust it... and no they aren't called POWs - because its a "non-war" declared status -- but they will remin there until this "non-war" is over - which they should stay there
<9> ttUSB Turntable with USB Audio Interface
<9> Featuring Plug and Play USB compatibility with both PC and Macintosh computers, the TTUSB turntable makes digitizing ones vinyl record collection a breeze. Equipped with an adjustable anti-skating control
<8> Libertine do you realize that the few who have been let out - have gone back and killed American soldiers...
<1> people who support terrorism can expect a strong response.
<9> Twobar let me get the url
<8> Libertine - so why should we release them?
<4> Kaliuna: so you think the federal govenrment has the authority to empower the federal armed forces to imprison anyone without charging them or cl***ifying them as a prisoner of war?
<1> ok, at least that partially bolster's FT's point, though one can always dispute such a poill
<4> Kaliuna: that is a lot of power you trust your government with man.
<1> *poll
<8> Libertine -- I believe that these men were caught in an act of war against our soldiers --
<10> What about they charge them as "unlawful combatants"? I think that's fair.
<1> According to a survey of Palestinian opinion financed by Norway's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 65% support al-Qaeda actions in the U.S. and Europe, 32% support al-Qaeda actions in Iraq, and 13% support al-Qaeda actions in Jordan.
<4> Kaliuna: you trust your government more then I do, but thats ok; just repeat after me 'papers please'
<8> e-Hernick ya
<10> Unlawful combatants can rightfully be shot on sight. Locking them up is a favor.
<10> Most armies would just exterminate unlawful combatants as soon as they enter their field of view.
<9> Twobar http://numark.com/index.html?http://numark.com/products/product_view.php?v=overview&n=168
<8> Libertine -- fine tell you what we turn them loose in your yard -- see how long you last
<6> gpoo thanks.
<4> e-Hernick: well im glad we're better then the Nazi's good job setting the bar that low.
<9> yepe
<10> Libertine: You defeat yourself and reveal the weakness of your arguments by invoking the nazis at every turn.
<11> e-Hernick, there is only one reason to capture instead of kill them on the spot... the possibility of obtaining intelligence
<4> e-Hernick: we're supposed to be the shining city on the hill; not the tent city of the ghetto.
<6> Man, a USB turntable. That's neat. I have a ton of vinyl records from the sixties and seventies that I've owned all these years, most of them in perfect condition. Our baby boomer generation was the stupidest generation in the history of earth, but we did the best music.
<1> panini: right
<8> Libertine - they are housed, clothed, fed and as RedCross has stated - they are in better health than when they arrived -- they have been given holy books, they exercise, play yard games -- what more you want?
<11> wtf?? USB turntable?
<11> lol
<4> e-Hernick: your arguement is 'well they could be dead; so by not killing them we're doing them a favor' ... and you claim im in the weak one?
<6> panini http://numark.com/index.html?http://numark.com/products/product_view.php?v=overview&n=168
<6> panini I havent examined it yet
<12> Kaliuna: They aren't free to leave.
<4> Kaliuna: freedom? a trial?
<12> That's enough.
<4> Kaliuna: we could be housing innocent people; we have no idea.
<7> Yep, we're spreading freedom and democracy through the bunker buster bomb and the gulag. The problem is not the idea of spreading democracy, it's the very peculiar way that we carry it out.
<1> nor should they be.
<9> panini` that what I said
<1> that's enough
<8> icmp -- good! because those that have been turned out - free back to their country -- take up arms and have killed our soldiers -- so they should stay there!
<10> Libertine: Look, in a war zone, anybody who carries arms and/or conducts combat operations without being a duly registered member of a recognize military organisation has signed his death warrant and has forfeited his life. As soon as their status as an unlawful combatant has been determined by enemy troops, they will either be exterminated or captured.
<12> Timur-: How can anybody say that without a trial proving it?
<1> Kali: right, or, in other words.. 'duh?'
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