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Comments:
<0> OcDoc: last emperor in rome was deposed in 476 AD
<1> bob: well, if I recall there wasn't much of an empire by then
<1> it was Germans
<2> is south vietnam a communist country now?
<3> Augustus, Tiberius, Nero, Caligula, Claudius?
<0> there wasn't, but there certainly was under Diocletion and Marcus Aurelius
<1> June: yes
<0> Diocletian
<2> ok, thanks
<3> yeah they went commie
<1> Hadrian built the wall in England and then promptly evacuated England
<1> June: it's all one country now
<3> no Nero after Caudius
<0> nero was the last julian
<3> Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero
<1> try the full name of the emperors ... it'll give you a headache
<1> caius julius blah blah blah
<3> Yeah I think I should at least know the emporers, the important ones, and the main Gods.
<0> there were a lot of nondescript emperors in the later years
<3> Yeah at some point it becomes pointless.
<1> Trajan's column is at the museum in londinium
<3> Roman stuff just isn't as cool, after they go Christian anyway.
<4> New Abu Ghraib Photos Revealed:
<4> http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=127322®ion=6#
<1> oh, boy ... all the porn fans will get a thrill
<3> Oh boy! Maybe another feces-covered Arab guy picture.
<0> diocletian was emperor 284-305
<0> pretty long career as emperors went at the time
<4> ...the latest photographs reveal further abuse including new incidents of killing, torture and ***ual humiliation, the programs producers said.
<1> bob: my timeline is way off then
<1> how many prisoners were killed by american soldiers at that prison?
<0> he had a big cult of personality
<0> hanoi hilton?
<1> abu ghraib
<0> oh, by american soldiers
<3> there was just one, I'm sure of
<4> The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has been granted access to the photographs under Freedom of Information provisions, but the US government is currently appealing the decision.
<3> One guy died under interrogation, I believe, they froze him and had pictures of him too, in the last batch.
<3> The allegation is that the 'Iraqi forces' were torturing in bigger numbers.
<3> Not US soldiers. I think this was 'outsourced' mostly.
<1> died during interrogation is not the same as killing a prisoner
<4> US held youngsters at Abu Ghraib:
<4> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4339511.stm
<3> accidently killed by USA
<3> He was probably very upset about a pointed question, and died of a broken heart.
<1> ah, youngsters can't be enemy soldiers or terrorists
<3> possible terrorist, accidently killed by US soldiers. Frozen, and his picture was on the web.
<1> our enemies would never use kids as soldiers or terrorists would they?
<4> oh; i forgot you put children on death row in your country too
<3> Maybe more pictures will be no news.
<3> since we've already talked out the torture thing a bit here.
<3> only the naughty ones.
<1> only if they're m*** murderers with no conscience
<1> I think we wait until they're adults before we kill them tho
<3> or conventional murderers with bad lawyers
<1> isn't "bad lawyer" redundant?
<3> incompetent lawyer
<1> yeah
<3> mostly in California they sit on death row, and never get the lethal shot
<3> I think some guy, is like 70 or something, and might get lethal injection.
<1> talk about wishy washy .... why have a death penalty if you're not going to actually kill any criminals?
<3> appeals take a long time -- I'm not sure why exactly.
<1> I don't think it's surprising that out of three hundred million people a hundred or so might be monsters that should be killed
<3> will be intersting to see if they manage to execute Saddam
<1> he'll die of old age
<3> I don't know -- that trial seems kind of chaotic
<1> they're good at killing women who look at other men
<3> I think, at some point, they'll just say "Screw this ****, he's guilty" and then shoot him.
<1> I hope they say "screw this ****" and send our troops home soon
<3> Maybe Saddam gets ******inated -- if the trial gets too chaotic. I wouldn't be surprised.
<1> how long does police academy and basic training take?
<5> more likely we will have a draft soon and a war in Iran
<1> they could have retired an entire generation of army grunts by now
<3> well, they keep training those Iraqis, and then they're not sure if they are loyal to militias or government.
<1> well, who cares?
<4> Children of prisoners in Abu Ghraib abuses
<3> Bush doesn't want 'President Moqtada Sadr' after USA leaves.
<1> anyone can make a baby, even terrorists
<1> why should I care what Bush wants?
<5> There are more Muslim radicals than the Entire Germany and Japanese Armies in WW2
<1> the new government will either succeed or fail
<3> Well just what Bush wants is what determines how it goes.
<1> yeah, but I could care less
<1> enough is enough ... if they don't have police and an army by now, they're never going to have them
<3> Me, I'm the other way. I only try to figure how it might go, and don't concern myself too much with 'what is right'. That never happens anyway.
<3> Yeah Bush might go for the 'declare victory and leave' plan. Might be as good as anything else.
<1> worked in Nam
<1> except they waited a tad too long
<3> yeah but South Vietnam fall, caused major chaos in southeast asia.
<4> sick
<1> people hanging off of helos was a bit embar***ing
<1> the south falling is NOT what caused major chaos in SE asia ... it was already completely chaotic
<3> yeah that's what Bush wants to avoid. Is the 'helicopter evacuation' scene.
<3> well, North Vietnam was hugely motivated by winning South Vietnam. And took on crazy wars in Cambodia and with China, even. And those didn't go anywhere. But still.
<1> but still what?
<3> If you have a radical Iraq that 'defeated the USA' -- they might be motivated to take on other wars.
<1> like anything would stop them?
<3> when countries win wars, they get the triumphal mania.
<1> as opposed to the defeated by the infidels mania?
<1> sorry, I can't appreciate the difference
<0> but that didn't happen after the iraq war
<0> oh wai
<0> let me try that again
<0> but that didn't happen after the afghan war
<0> oh wai
<3> Being defeated in a war, causes like depression and questioning and moral crisis. Like the USA after South Vietnam war.
<1> but that didn't happen after the Yugoslavia war
<1> oh wait
<1> ke: only if you're american
<3> Yeah
<3> Yugoslavia war, I think Serbia basically got their Serbian state in Bosnia.
<0> OcDoc: we did relatively little ground fighting in yugoslavia so not much to get riled up about
<1> during the "war" the contractor for the VA benefits told us we couldn't charge twenty five bucks for vets who failed to show up for their scheuled medical exams because of the war ... I e-mailed them to ask when we HAVEN'T been at war during the last fifty years
<3> But Serbia will lose Kosovo to albianian Muslims, eevntually, I think.
<0> ke6i: Milosevic didn't get to carve off pieces of the other republics like he wanted to
<3> well.
<3> Bosnia Herzegovina is effectively partitioned still, I believe.
<0> republica srpska is not under serbia-montenegro's control
<3> yeah, but the point is, come on. It's ethnic serbian state.
<1> can't tell the players without a score card
<3> they ethnic cleansed, and they got their little state.
<1> point is we're still there and people are still dying
<6> how wants to smoke a bowl with me?
<6> who
<0> is there active conflict?
<1> bob: depends on what you mean by active I guess
<3> I think bosnia has chilled out lately? I haven't heard of anyone getting kiled there recently.
<1> bob: I have friends who say their mates are occasionally killed by hostiles there
<0> well-equipped people shooting at each other
<1> kebi: thank your friendly news media people ... if it's boring they don't print it
<3> So they killed by land mines and stuf?
<3> or by like guys with guns?
<1> both
<1> maybe not as many as in Iraq ... more like the level in Afghanistan, perhaps
<3> yeah these smaller wars, fall between the cracks these days.
<1> for example, when was the last thing you heard about Milosovic's trial?
<3> not for awhile. crappy US media not covering this.
<1> the purpose of show trials is to bore the people of the world to death
<1> better get back to bed ... laterz
<5> mmmm fresh ground coffee
<5> a gift from the Gods
<7> gross
<7> tea is where it's at
<3> yeah I'm more of a tea drinker. Never developed a taste for coffee. Though I like my tea thin, like Chinese Restaurant style, not black UK-ish.
<8> Jesus the Italians need to learn to make ice
<8> Swede shoots the puck down, it gets stopped by a pool of water
<8> wtf?
<8> Why don't they just make the next winter olympics in Saudi Arabia for christs sake
<9> morning Herz
<10> TIme to get pummeled italy
<10> Whoo
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