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Comments:
<0> As bush did.
<0> Then that;s differenent
<1> Rockfish: for some people, sure.
<2> Welby: what?
<0> there are places around the world that pose a more imminent thrreat than Iraq did.
<3> Iran?
<4> Not true
<1> Rockfish: i'm glad we finally stook up to him, granted. took long enough.
<3> Iran's the worst at the moment.
<0> Tomorrow I will come back here with well thought out examples.
<4> no one was directly threatening our ***ets and citizens like Iraq
<2> Welby: go ahead and invade them ... let us know how it turns out
<3> They'll get theirs soon.
<5> Welby, Bush never said it was an imminent threat, in fact he denied that several times
<0> So you invade the one thats easiest to invade?
<4> ...
<4> yes
<0> You start the war in the easiest place to start it?
<4> and it isn't about invading
<4> that's another problem
<0> So then you'd be doing it to set an example?
<2> Welby: you invade the one who starts it first
<3> Rockfish, correct....he said we needed to act before it became an imminent threat.
<0> Iraq started it.
<0> ?
<2> Welby: quit putting words in other peoples' mouths
<4> Welby: you are doign that a bit
<2> Welby: yes, for the tenth time ... Iraq invaded Kuwait
<0> I haven't - Im asking for clarifications.
<0> And what does Invading Kuwait have to do with the waR ON TERROR?
<0> sorry caps.
<4> Welby: Treaty violations
<1> it's interesting how everyone seems to think they have the proper strategy for dealing with terrorism when we haven't fought a war against terrorism before
<2> Welby: it has NOTHING to do with the war on terror
<0> Then we invaded Iraq to uphold UN resolutions etc, not to fight terorrism?
<2> Welby: only YOU are trying to say that WE are saying that it is part of the war on terror
<1> heck, there are plenty of strategies... good luck proving something else would have worked better or worse without a time machine
<6> Welby, it has something to do with the war on iraq
<5> Welby, what makes you think there was only one reason we invaded Iraq?
<4> Welby: Our foriegn policy completely reformed...and these new policies were in our treaty understanding as well
<2> Welby: we invaded Iraq after Iraq invaded Kuwait
<3> windopain, yep
<0> Windopain, I agree - so I'm asking, is iraq the best choice, keeping hindsight in mind.
<4> Yes
<3> Welby, what would be your choice?
<6> best choice for what?
<4> but that is depending on my ***umption Democracy will prevail, soon
<1> Welby: hindsight alone doesn't allow us to answer that question
<0> Well keeping in mind whatever it is you want to keep in mind, do you stil think Iraq was the best place to go?
<2> Iraq invaded Kuwait over a disagreement on OIL
<0> To fight terorrism not protect international law etc.
<1> Welby: you need to know things like... well, we could start with everything the enemy is hiding from us that we don't know, along with what would have happened in the long run if we did something else, etc...
<4> Welby: Can yuo name another country that would have been better?
<2> Welby: we went to Iraq because Iraq invaded Kuwait ... should be have gone to North Korea when Iraq invaded Kuwait? sheesh
<0> that was over 10 years ago
<2> Publius: you
<0> under bush 1
<3> In my opinion, the best way to fight terrorism is to free the middle east from tyranny if we can....first step anyway
<2> HAD to ask
<4> someone else did
<4> I'm pressing
<5> 16 years ago, and we were still at war over it in 2003
<7> what does that entail, Jett?
<0> I will name another country tomorrow after sleep and research.
<2> Welby: you may have a short attention span but I don't recommend it for governments
<3> occ, regime change in Iran would be my first choice
<0> But i have a feeling that won't stand, for OcDoc
<3> or next choice
<7> definitely, but how can it be achieved?
<4> I'll vouch Welby
<7> withouyt provoking muslims?
<2> welby: you don't need research, you need logic and you haven't answered ANY of my questions
<4> go to bed and show up tomorrow, that's all ya can do now
<3> we're gonna take out a lot of their infrastructure, not much more work to topple the idiots from power
<2> Welby: we went to Iraq because Iraq invaded Kuwait ... should be have gone to North Korea when Iraq invaded Kuwait? sheesh
<0> that's because i'm not prepared with practical knowledge at my fingertips
<4> that's fair
<4> haha
<5> Taking care of Iran will be much easier with two friendly governments on either side of it
<0> OcDoc, the answer is no.
<7> i think taking on iran directly, now, is too risky
<2> Welby: well, that's a start
<0> But Iraq Didn't invade kuwait under Bush2
<7> best bet is to support a moderate "regime" in iran
<1> Welby: he asked you for an opinion, you tell him you aren't prepared, then you answer?
<7> get the current douchebag smeared
<2> Welby: what does the name of the President have to do with it?
<1> heh anyway
<4> Welby: 9/11
<0> Because I am talkign about Iraq in the context of the War on Terror
<4> foreign policy change
<3> occ, either Israel or the US is about to strike Iran...I'm not suggesting an invasion, just a little hot work for maybe 30 days
<7> i dont think we can openly attack
<4> think of the Lusitania, Peal Harbor, 9/11, ect
<7> in any way
<7> not now
<3> we're going to
<5> Welby, why are you limiting it to the war on terror, there were several other reasons for the invasion
<2> okay ... yawn ... off to bed
<3> you can count on it
<7> i think we need to get europe to increase the international pressure, for starters
<1> fair enough in my opinion Welby. was iraq the BEST place to go? everyone will have their own opinions on that. why not find something concrete to argue about?
<7> which fortunately appears to be happening
<0> My issue is: Is Iraq the best place to be fighting the military aspect and democracy building aspect of the 'War on Terror'.
<7> european terror attacks are galvanizing the people
<5> The democracy building aspect absolutely
<3> occ, that's true
<8> haha
<0> Rockfish, I'll give you that.
<8> yes
<3> Europe is way fed up with radical Islam.
<9> Remember, Bush isn't a nation builder. He said so himself before he was elected.
<4> Welby: hhaha
<8> the best place to build a democracy in the middle east
<7> i dont want to wish for more, but they only draw europe into it
<0> I agree completely that it is the best place to start Democracy building, etc blah blah
<8> is in the country that has a large majority that is sympathetic with iran
<4> you should go or accept you will be here some time
<0> but what about the open military confrontation part?
<7> its no longer just an "attack on the USA"
<8> let's build a democracy in the country that will popularly elect a shiite government
<8> and buddy with iran!
<8> brilliant
<8> iraq is in no way the best place in the middle east to build democracy.
<8> How about jordan?
<5> Oooooh, shiites, they must be evil
<7> now now, ***bag
<0> You're such an ***bag.
<7> youve gotta be pragmatic
<8> I am being pragmatic.
<7> you're giving in to your EMOTIONS
<8> Democracy in iraq = popularly elected theocrats sympathetic with iran
<8> with religious allegiance to the higher shiite authorities
<8> no
<1> all of this "is it the best" crap
<8> I am not being emotional
<8> i am being pragmatic
<3> Iranians want the ayatollahs out.
<8> iraq is perhaps one of the worst places to try to build democracy.
<3> They want to be like the US.
<7> iraq will EVENTUALLY be a proud democracy (or republic)
<7> its just going to take time
<7> IMO
<8> or two different ones
<1> if we sat around asking "is this the best course of action" we'd never take any action
<8> there's not that much glue holding iraw together.
<8> iraq
<10> ***bag - and then there is the word 'build' US kind of installed version 1.0
<11> iran is a pretty sweet democracy
<3> ***bag, you're completely wrong
<8> there's not a common history among the people
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