| |
| |
| |
|
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63
Comments:
<0> Oh the hell it didn't.
<0> The bubble build up caused big gains in tax revenue across the boards.
<1> hmm Mariah Carey
<0> When the IT industry flatlined everybody else stayed up for a while and revenue stayed steady... when the other industries followed the whole thing went to hell and the surplus went by bye
<2> and bush slashing taxes right after the bubble burst didn't help deficits
<0> Revenue is higher now with lower tax rates.
<3> the surplus goes bye-bye when you lower taxes and raise spending I.E. GWB
<2> in adjusted dollars?
<0> Ya.
<0> Problem is that Bush and his gop congress didn't cut spending at all.
<2> how can that be, when real income has declined since 2001?
<0> If they would have held spending *even* we'd have a surplus right now.
<0> They raised spending every friggin years.
<0> -s
<3> Linus- I beleive he is wrong about that
<2> and more companies have move blocks of jobs offshore
<2> moved
<0> Total inlays are higher, even when adjusted for inflation than when Bush took office.
<0> More companies keep moving ****jobs offshore.
<2> i cannot dispute that for a fact... yet
<0> Problem is that we have a lot of people that only know how to do ****jobs.
<2> but it is a fact that american workers real income has declined
<0> Not enough education/job training funding imo.
<2> and more and more corporations are making their profits overseas
<0> Linus-... well the bubble bloated wages their for a few years.
<0> Back in 2000 I was offered $45,000/yr for tech work with a 2 year degree.
<0> By 2003 I was making 13 bucks an hour doing similar work.
<2> glock, don't fall into the anecdote trap
<3> **** jobs produce exports and reduce the trade deficits
<0> deku... aye.
<0> But they are still **** jobs.
<2> we have NOT reduced the tarade deficit!
<2> trade
<2> tirade
<3> Glock21 service industry isn't the best jobs either
<4> but we have no tirade deficit
<2> whatevah
<2> we have a tirade surplus
<2> :)
<5> lol
<0> Paying someone 20 bucks an hour to do a job that requires no skill, no intelligence, and no significant training ain't going to happen.
<4> anecdotal evidence is the only real evidence in social "sciences"
<0> Paying some malaysian guy to do it for 5 bucks a day... now that's a bargain.
<0> And he's happy to do it... otherwise he'd starve.
<2> OcDoc, large data bank of anecdotal evidence makes it no longer merely anecdotal
<0> He ain't looking to buy some 100,000 dream home like the american worker.
<0> He ain't looking to buy some 20,000 car
<2> 100k dram home? rofl
<4> Linus: statistics are unreliable when you don't know what you're measuring
<2> what planet you on?
<2> dream
<3> ok you don't have to justify globalization in your argument here
<0> Linus-... the planet outside california.
<0> Sorry... I forgot you were on the California planet.
<2> OcDoc, you can produce trends
<3> we are talking about U.S. jobs and tax revenues
<4> LInus: no you can't
<0> 100,000 here will get you a damn nice place... picket fence, big yard... a lifetime of happiness.
<4> when you do that ****, you end up with conclusions like "the gap between rich and poor is increasing" ... pure bull****
<0> In california that'd probably be rent for the year.
<3> depends what part of California
<4> or "a market basket of goods in real terms:
<0> The gap is increasing... the rich people are richer than they were before... the poor people just happen to be just as poor.
<4> or "a hundred thousand new jobs since last quarter"
<4> it's all pure spin
<0> And all the IT idiots who were overpaid are making what they're worth now so some of the middle cl*** dropped a bit.
<0> :P
<3> I like how you added "just happen to be"
<3> as if it were some kind of coincidence
<4> deku: how do you know it's not?
<0> Manufacturing jobs in the US are pretty ****ed right now... which means our trade deficit is pretty ****ed.
<3> cause that would require a 100 million person coincidence
<4> no one knows, they just spin it to suit their social agenda
<0> But no company is going to spend 2 billion extra dollars a year to have a US factory over a malaysian one.
<3> some companys do.
<4> Glock: actually, sometimes they do ... they have experience with oversease investments being confiscated
<0> Workers fees, taxes, epa compliance costs, uber-safety costs, health benefits costs, retirement costs, etc etc etc
<4> the elimination of "bribery"
<3> + good workers
<0> And ****loads in lawyers fees every time some idiot chops his finger off because he was playing with the ****in' conveyer belt.
<3> good employees go a long way
<4> try to get an arab to work at a new refinery
<0> A good worker can be found at 5 bucks a day.
<4> they simply hire philippino guest workers and sit on their butts
<0> A good US worker has to be paid better than most skilled professionals to consider getting off the picket line.
<4> you can't run a hospital in Riydh because the women nurses can't take care of male patients
<0> It's ****ing ridiculous.
<3> Glock21 its called a living wage
<0> And then they whine when their company closes the plant down to reopen one in bum**** egypt.
<0> deku... 20 bucks an hour ain't a living wage.
<3> inflation is a mother****er and blue-collar workers deserve to be able to have health insurance
<3> its not 'rediculous'
<0> That's ****ing luxury for an unskilled worker.
<4> Glock: some manufacturing will always take place in America because they can't go anywhere else, and they can charge whatever they want to a captive customer
<0> Minimum wage is a living wage unless you live in some over priced hell hole.. in which case... move.
<3> you think these union employees are walking around driving Porche's?
<3> these guys are barely getting by many of them
<4> deku: that's bull**** too ... prices aren't too high or no one could pay them
<0> deku... if they're making 20 bucks an hour... there is no excuse to be 'scraping by'
<0> I live on far ****ing less.
<6> $20/hr plus beaucoux benefits .. not bad for someone who may not have even finished high school, and may not even be able to speak english
<0> ****... if they make 20 bucks an hour they don't deserve benefits
<0> They aren't skilled workers ffs.
<4> prices are high BECAUSE people can pay them
<3> Glock21 different areas in this country have different costs of living
<0> They can be replaced by people who don't even speak the god damn language.
<3> and $20/hr isn't that much in LA or NY
<4> they can pay them because they are making enough wages to pay them ... get a clue
<0> deku... there's plenty of ****holes in LA and NY that don't cost that much.
<0> The average cost of living is high
<5> gm and ford ain't got no plants in LA oe NY, they not stupid
<0> But the ****holes are still there.
<4> the government causes inflation plain and simple
<0> The average cost of living is high because of all the rich people.
<3> Glock21 ****holes exactly, American blue-collar workers shouldn't have to live in ****holes
<0> The ****holes are still readily available.
<0> deku... no skills... no worth
<4> if too many people have too much money prices go up because the people charging the prices CAN get higher prices
<0> If you're worthless don't expect high living.
<0> If you are easily replaced and there are plenty of ready and willing candidates... your labor is worth practically nothing.
<4> deku: you're making **** up and pretending it's fact ... it's not fact the average union worker is making a bundle and don't forget it
<2> 1998 ............................................................................... 1,721,798
<2> 1999 ............................................................................... 1,827,454
<2> 2000 ............................................................................... 2,025,218
<2> 2001 ............................................................................... 1,991,194
<4> shoulda been a comma in there
<3> OcDoc I said the opposite
<2> 2002 ............................................................................... 1,853,173
<2> 2003 ............................................................................... 1,782,342
<2> 2004 ............................................................................... 1,880,071
<2> revenues
<2> federal on-budget
<4> deku: the average union worker is making a bundle
<2> looks perfect on my display ;)
<3> now i'm just confused
<4> deku: we know, but we're trying to fix that for you
<3> Linus- U see they will say anything around here
<0> Some union workers are making a bundle
<0> Some still make **** wages
<2> deku, gasp!
<0> Some union workers deserve a bundle.
<4> deku: your problem is you're starting with the ***umption that working stiffs are having a hard time making it, then you're looking for any shred of evidence to support it
<0> Some of the Cat mechanics have the equivalent of a college degree in training.
<0> And they're almost all union.
<3> Linus- I think it stems fromt he right-wing talk-show hosts, who just make stuff up and pull it out of their ***es.
<0> They're skilled workers and are worth the pay... hard to replace and not very many able candidates to replace them.
<4> deku: I don't listen to right-wing talk-show hosts ... do you?
<3> sometimes
<4> deku: whom do you listen to to get YOUR propaganda?
<4> or are you just making it up
Return to
#politics
or
Go to some related
logs:
freetrade efnet hired illegals
#mirc
#nhl
#gentoo
#gamedev
#bsd
spray encapsolate
#windows
#politics
#hardware
|
|