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Comments:
<0> CryArvach,then they aren't very profitable.
<1> redfish, what's wrong with uni*** bathrooms? It's not like people walk around naked in there!
<2> the program is a clear violation of FISA
<0> Guest56, save it for the hearings
<1> if you're getting naked in a cafe bathroom there is something wrong with you.. seek help
<0> Horse****
<3> TT they are....
<2> but i suppose you think FISA's an unconstitutional restraint on presidential powers?
<0> Put it before the court
<3> but they shuffle their profits through these OFCs...
<3> paying a much lower tax than otherwise
<0> CryArvach, is that allowed by law?
<2> TheTailor: do you have a specific reason to believe the domestic spying program doesn't violate the law, or are you just pulling the party line?
<4> Guest56 i think we need it but i also think it's illegal.
<2> TalkRadio: We don't need it. FISA works just fine. The only reason you would need the program is to spy on people when you don't have probable cause to do so. And that's just a waste of resources
<5> pretty much every "expert" i've heard on the subject says it's clearly illegal. Question is should it be.
<4> just my oppinion
<2> ...and we're only talking about spying on Americans here. If no American's involved, you just need probable cause that the person is a foreign agent
<5> I just don't hit the ceelings every time a law is technically broken, especially when a good portion of the country doesn't agree with it
<6> suna: I won 2 tickets to comedy show at the hilton
<2> "technically broken"? like lying about a blowjob?
<5> good:P
<5> Guest56: that law isn't controversial, what are you talking about?
<5> I think clinton should have never even been asked that question
<5> but he was, and he lied
<2> I don't understand how conservatives are not outraged about the government spying on Americans without probable cause. I though conservatives were for small government.
<5> nobody is going around saying clinton didn't do anything wrong. They're not saying they think purjury shouldn't be illegal
<5> it's not comparable
<0> Guest56, it has to do with calls connecting to people overseas, the general will be sure to make ***holes out of eny liberals that want to wuestion hi, I'm sure, on national tv.
<5> Guest56: Most "conservatives" are more about ****ing party cock & doing whatever the dems don't like than actually being conservative. They're too caught up in pretending that being conservative means not being liberal/leftist/democratic
<2> TheTailor: we're still talking about spying on Americans without a warrant, which the law (and the constitution) does not allow
<5> the biggest example I can think of is "conservatives" support m*** deportation of illegals. I can't think of a worse way to shove american tax dollars down the ****ing toilet. So much for conservative logic
<0> Guest56, leave it to the courts
<0> Guest56, but who will bring it?
<2> unbelievable.
<7> suna: aren't we sending billions to iraq? Do you think that is a good use of tax dollars?
<5> i don't mean to pick on conservatives btw, the other side so to speek does the same thing
<0> It's a dead issue, it pertained to stopping terror and nobody will bring it up.
<2> snowman: nope
<0> Guest56, your party is split, they won't tow your line.
<2> TheTailor: it's not a dead issue, I ***ure you. Not everything is justified in the name of fighting terror
<7> suna: it kind of freaks me out that congress had to raise the national debt threshold several times :) heh
<5> snowman: Personally i've always been against the war. However, if you believe the war is necessary as many conservatives do...and you think that there is a reasonable goal, as many conservatives do, then they can argue it's not a waste of money
<5> however
<8> suna: spoken like a true liberal :)
<5> it doesn't compare to the m*** deportation of illeagls...a situation in which there is no logical way one could think it was workable
<5> you'd have be a complete moron to think that would do anything more than shove money down the toilet
<5> this country is not capible of effiently deporting 1 illegal
<8> no, you just have to be smart enough to see it would work
<5> they sit in jail for a while, sometimes 6 months, sometimes a year
<5> taking our money
<5> before they're finally deported
<5> takin gmore of our money
<5> and that's just 1 ****ing guy
<2> Suna: besides, I like cheap produce. Let's keep 'em here.
<5> there is no conservative logic you can apply to the desire to m*** deport illegals
<4> suna take em' out back and shoot em' that's cheap
<5> it's an economic disaster
<8> all you are saying is you have no respect for the law
<2> TalkRadio: is that comp***ionate conservatism?
<7> TalkRadio: ...
<5> panini: stay there in your dream world kid
<2> panini: like having respect for FISA?
<4> just cheaper. ****em' for sneaking em. god damn criminals
<7> TalkRadio still thinks he's in Vietnam
<0> Guest56, again, nobody cares.
<2> TheTailor: that's the problem
<8> if you really want illegals, then p*** a law saying the borders are completely open.
<7> TalkRadio: if you were a mexican, you'd do the same thing
<0> Guest56, it exists in the minds of the 'get Bush' crowd
<8> but don't just ignore the law
<2> panini: now that's just silly
<2> TheTailor: what exists?
<4> doesn't make it right and if i got shot in the head for stealing what wasn't mine it would be my fault
<8> yes, I realize respect for the LAW is a silly concept for you
<9> we shouldn't want to get bush- he's done a lot for the country
<0> Guest56, the dream that there is domestic spying.
<9> take the deficit
<9> please
<5> panini: that's the problem. People liek you don't realize that we're ****ED. there is no easy or "right" way out of this situation. M*** deportation is completely illogical, but so is ignoring the law. So what are you gonna do about it?
<5> send em all to prison? good luck there buddy
<7> panini: yah, but it's a good thing the US isn't a police state... (yet :/)
<5> most people don't even view what they've done as a felony
<7> err
<2> TheTailor: uhh...pretty sure the administration admitted they're engaged in domestic spying
<7> panini: that was to TalkRadio
<4> we aren't going to stop illegals until politicians start getting killed over it. as they should.
<9> we could make prison building a priority
<0> Guest56, well no, they are engaged in calls stemming from overseas, they have said that all along.
<9> i'm sure haliburton could build a lot of prisons fast
<2> TalkRadio: wow. take it easy there, buddy.
<5> prison? they're misdemenors man
<8> first, no solution makes sense UNTIL you have border security. In other words, a wall
<8> Once you have a wall, you can talk about other things
<2> TheTailor: that's domestic spying. it's warrantless surveillance of Americans on American soil.
<5> that they will climb over or go under or break through
<5> what good is a wallw
<4> i'm serious. i'm not the only one talkiing that way. many are not happy and maybe it's time to show what an American insurgency can do
<5> without real border security?
<8> Once you have a wall, you can start deporting
<8> Once you have a wall, you can have guest worker programs
<2> TheTailor: and no, it's both ways. not just calls from overseas to the U.S.
<9> put em all in jail
<5> guy2: for what, 2 monhts? it's a misdemenor
<8> Once you have a wall, you can start loosening LEGAL immigration
<0> Guest56, no it's not, and just because you say it is doesn't make it so. You don't decide.
<9> not sure what the businesses that hire them will do though
<8> Without a wall, nothing you do will be effective
<2> TheTailor: call it what you will. It's still illegal.
<5> that's another restraint that a lot of people don't realize this country is facing. They have broken a law, but not a serious one. You can't send them to prison, they'd be out before you took a piss
<7> a wall would destroy what the US is
<9> americans won't do construction jobs anymore
<0> Guest56, that's not for you to say, ask a court, you won't because it will show you soft on terror.
<7> guy2: that's because most of them don't pay anything
<5> unless you don't believe in letting the punishment fit the crime, and if that's the case please get the **** out of this country
<0> Guest56, so **** or get off the pot.
<9> well not at $6.50 an hour anyway
<10> why snowman? Why would enforcing our laws and border destroy what the US is?
<2> TheTailor: it's clearly spelled out in FISA. I can say it because it's black and white.
<7> guy2: yeah no one "smart" will kill themselves for $6/hr
<0> Guest56, prove it's illegal...
<5> i wonder how much a wall would actually cost
<8> cheap
<8> because you hire illegals to build it
<0> Guest56, take it to court
<9> most americans aren't willing to live in fields or 10 to an apt
<7> Egle: turning the US into a police state will hurt our well being as "free" country and cause our financial markets to plumment.
<5> you high? with the abundance of other jobs they have?
<9> when working full time
<5> sure, they'd build the wall;p
<0> Guest56, you and your ilk won't do that though...
<2> TheTailor: Okay. 1) FISA forbids warrantless surveillance of Americans. 2) Bush is engaged in warrantless surveillance of Americans
<9> of course- that means we are soft
<8> damn right they would
<7> Egle: do you really want to live in a country with a wall around it?
<10> snowman`, how is enforcing our borders to the outside somehow supressing us on the inside?
<5> another thing people don't think about is in order to deport illegals you actually have to arrest them all
<0> Guest56, just flap your mouth and hope it sinks in, shich of course it hasn't.
<8> suna and that's trivial too
<10> snowman`, compared to the open yes. What is the old saying a good fence makes good neighbors?
<0> Guest56, Bush is within his authority.
<9> the real question is: who benfits from the borders being open?
<2> TheTailor: how so?
<7> Egle: I'm just speculating but it would be a big deal and a first for us in history to do such a thing.
<8> they could have arrested a million or so, just by sweeping the protest parades
<5> panini: if it's trivial it takes forever. That's how law enforcement in this country works. If you're on the run, nobody's chasing you. They wait for you to turn up
<0> Guest56, if you think it's illegal, take it to court, you don't have the balls.
<5> they wait for you to to run into a police officer ina situation that requires ID
<9> same people who benefit from moving the jobs they can offshore
<2> TheTailor: What are you, four? You don't think there are legal challenges in the works?
<7> Egle: a wall won't get built until some terrorist crosses the border and does something bad :/
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