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Comments:
<0> give my control over the 'big red button' and ill show you how to properly make a demand
<1> yep janet
<2> bmc they won't care, cuz they'd know you were bluffing
<3> guess why you don't have control, bmc?
<0> mexicos radars start lighting up
<0> :P
<3> because your ideas are short-sighted and foolish!
<3> :D
<4> So, will anybody here support my "Special Immigrant Zone" program?
<2> no
<5> if it's in mexico
<4> That would give immigrants a legal status and better housing conditions
<3> nope
<3> no balkinization
<1> it really isn't mexico's job to keep them in
<5> and we don't pay for it :)
<4> It would greatly improve their quality of life.
<1> it really is the USA's job to keep them out
<0> america doesnt want amensty
<0> thats a simple fact
<2> the "illegal zone" already exists... it's called MEXICO
<5> the corporations want amnesty
<3> we could stick the illegal immigrants on the indian reservations
<5> not the people
<5> and guess who the gov listens to?
<0> dunno, who votes?
<1> I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of amnesty for those hardworking illegals who aren't totally ignoring the naturalization process
<5> doesn't matter who votes, who selects the candidates?
<2> all illegals ignore the naturalization process
<4> occ: this isn't balkanization. We're putting them inside fenced ghettos, but they might have a chance at earning their citizenships.. One thing is for sure, they are obligated to learn english, and attend mandatory american civics and english cl***es
<0> temporary guest worker status and paying fines isnt amnesty
<2> that's why they're illegal
<0> thats accountability
<1> no, they don't all
<3> not gonna happen, hernick
<3> regardless of your good intentions, enforcing ghettoes is horrible PR
<5> E-hernick: they wouldn't go for it
<3> so its a no go
<1> some of them are in the application process while at the same time being here and working here anyway
<1> doesn't matter much, it's a minor tangent
<1> sorry I brought it up
<0> Bokavitch im thinking many of them choose theirself
<0> president isnt a lawmaker
<0> congress is
<5> ?
<4> occ: what do you think about the design of the "Immigrant Housing Block", a 10-story high cube that contains 100 lodgings designed for two immigrants, and which is designed to be built in clusters of 16 or 25 cubes arranged in a square pattern, therefore housing 3200 or 5000 immigrants in a very small land surface, and at minimal cost?
<0> congress is who drafts legislation
<5> I know
<5> but what are you trying to address? i never suggested otherwise
<0> i dont think you need a 'committee' to say you can run for a congressional seat
<6> ok me and hubby going on a bike ride bye all
<3> i dont think its a bad idea in theory, but it won't fly with americans, hernick
<5> no, you need lobbyists and corporations and special interests to get your campaign off the ground and get a nomination
<0> no, you need money
<5> and after those groups have vetted all the possible candidates it's left to the general population to give their stamp of approval to one or the other
<4> occ: the "Immigrant Housing Blocks" are of course built right next to factories and industrial areas, and they are linked by bike rails (like train rails but for special train-like bikes) to nearby agricultural fields, so that the immigrants can reach their workplace quickly and efficiently, without having to burn oil in powered vehicles
<4> occ: also, by giving them special bikes that cannot operate on roads, but only on government-built tracks, we can more easily control their movements. Also, bike rails are cheaper than bike trails
<5> E-Hernick: the basic problem with you plan still exists, immigrants WON'T go for that
<5> they don't want to live in fenced in ghettos
<4> Indeed, it is more economically productive to use the muscular power of the illegal aliens and have them provide the motive strength necessary to propel themselves than to use a motor and waste our precious, precious oils on moving illegal aliens around.
<4> Bokavitch: look, the immigrants don't have a word to say. they're illegal aliens who are facing m*** deportation.
<2> e-Hernick, they don't believe so
<4> Bokavitch: so they don't have a choice. They don't want to be hunted down like Elian Gonzales when they can move into beautiful government-provided lodgings.
<2> they believe they can get full amnesty, and they won't settle for less
<5> We can't realistically deport them, we need to cut off their livlihood
<5> it's a lot more effective to fine employers
<4> Bokavitch: no, we need to m*** them in beautiful camps located next to their workplace
<2> deportation IS possible. I did the math
<1> they're not forking citizens, it's not up to them, panini
<4> If they don't work, or they get sick, we deport them.
<2> S-Fidelis, they vote
<4> Well, maybe we treat some of the sick,
<1> in the final analysis, they'll settle for what happens to them regardless of their preferences
<1> panini: are you claiming noncitizens are voting in US elections?
<2> well, duh
<2> non-living ppl also vote
<1> that's crime, plain and simple; investigate, arrest, prosecute, eh?
<4> I'm an un-american noncitizen. How can I vote?
<4> S-Fidelis: america needs them
<7> I don't believe any significant number are voting
<1> yeah, it's a red herring
<2> and, they vote democrat overwhelmingly
<1> sure, all 26 of them :P
<7> we have a hard enough time getting legal americans to vote
<2> suna most of what you believe is false :)
<7> panini: you're the one who doesn't know what liberal means:)
<7> it's completely illogical
<4> So, some of you appear to believe that my Immigration plan isn't a wonderful thing. Why?
<7> go through all that fraudulant h***le to vote
<4> Don't you see the benefits?
<7> when they have basic living to worry about
<7> I'm with fidelis, all 26 of em
<1> if they're paid to do it, they're motivated
<2> e-Hernick, yeah, it's totally unworkable
<2> you're on the wrong track entirely
<3> heres how to resolve the issue
<3> a, institute a guest worker program
<7> there is no pretty way to resolve the issue. It ****s. It's going to ****. It's not getting better.
<5> E-hernick: It's not wonderful because there are better ways, besides the fact it wouldnt work and seems pretty cruel
<3> b, allow future "immigration" under the guest worker program, and step up enforcement at borders
<3> this way, legitimate "illegals" will be paying taxes and documented
<3> anmd those running the border will have added suspicion
<2> nope
<7> It's very difficult to take a firm stance withotu being hypocritical, especially since I know I would hop the border if I were in their situation
<8> Asked at a foreign-policy discussion whether the United States would allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons, the president began his reply with a "mmmm," then chuckled.
<3> because those who just want to work wont bother sneaking in
<3> so the sneakers = the criminals
<1> it's been neglected and ignored for more than four generations, so it stands to reason that it's become a huge mess
<2> not unless you also support building the Wall
<4> panini: would you rather have 10 million illegal aliens living among americans, ready to be activated from their sleeper cells at any time by a coded announcement on Tele Latina by Vicente Fox, or would you rather pack them in fenced Housing Cubes next to their workplace, educate them, give them internet access and clean housing.
<1> that's more problematic to deal with than if we'd secured the borders 50 years ago
<3> i dont know, i havent considered SPECIFIC INFRASTRUCTURE yet
<2> e-Hernick, there are already much more than 10 million
<1> better late than never
<3> but this is the long-term way to resolve the issue, obviously
<7> stepping up border control sounds pretty the way the "no child left behind act" sounded pretty
<3> and its what we're going to do
<7> but if you start thinking about reality for 2 seconds
<2> and the number will only keep going up
<5> occ: i agree
<7> you realize it's nothign but trouble
<4> Okay.
<1> we don't need 10 million, we probably need far less than half of that
<4> Let's not fence them in.
<5> it's obvious that we need some legal means to allow the people who want to work to come here
<7> stepping up border control, the way our govt likes to do things, would result in more money going twords a system that doesn't work
<3> this allows us to focus on the few border jumpers who have alterior motives
<4> Let's drop the fence.
<3> rather than poor people looking for work
<5> but i don't think we should grant amnesty to the ones who are here already
<5> they should have to go back and come through the system again legally
<3> hence increasing the safety of the US
<1> fence or no, every nation needs secure borders. the USA is no exception
<2> e-Hernick, then you lose any hope of border security
<5> or we'll have no idea if they are criminals or other undesirable elements
<4> panini: oh, that fence is good
<4> I've revised my plan, then.
<1> I have to agree with that Bokavitch, I'm folding on that right now this second
<1> they should have to go back and come through the system legally
<2> it's nice to say "increase border security", except it isn't even doable without a Wall
<2> even with a wall it'll be hard
<4> It is easy to design an invincible wall.
<1> the double fences with patrols between them, well on this side of the border, makes sense to me
<4> As long as you're willing to kill some mexicans
<3> well, if you have far fewer attempts due to the legitimate road of the guest worker program, existing manpower will by definition be more focused
<5> S-Fidelis: :) glad to know someone agrees with me
<7> they should have to go back? financial black hole, this country can't handle too many more of them. Screen em, hell yes. Punish them in some way for past crimes? no objection. Send them back? nop
<1> not on the border but within it
<3> the question of how best to patrol the border is another matter entirely
<4> occ: armed robots
<7> the problem is the best way is still going to ****
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