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Comments:
<0> Airbuster, its balanced out, I think we do need a more objective way to draw seats so both sides will stop the gerry mandering for political gain.
<0> But why wouldnt the power in party redraw districts to aid them ?
<0> It would be insane not to ?
<1> yep
<0> The Democrats did it !
<2> nod, fm
<1> unilateral stopping would skew representative results hard
<0> But we can make it so neither group can do it. if we work hard enough if people want that but lets not blame one person or another. Lets attack the system which allows it.
<1> so as long as anyone can do it.. everyone will
<1> yeah i would vote for that FM :)
<0> Maybe a computer could draw districts based on non biased rational critieria.
<1> yeah i was just going to say that they need to regenrate ALL districts
<2> fm, who programs the computer, though?
<3> I predict Ronnie Earl will drop the case against DeLay or it will be dismissed.
<1> its not who programs it.. its who verifies it..
<1> tailor im sure.. earle doesnt have a case
<3> Earl got his way, deLay isn't in office
<1> and has admited it
<4> Freemrkts, the Carter/Baker group that produced suggestions for improvement of US election process made a suggestion on the gerrymandering issue
<4> I think it was a pretty good one
<0> Population increases X Amount in a area of a state and that earns the state a new congressional district maybe the computer should consider primarily where the growth area is and divide that up.
<0> Katey there are also a lot of non partisan ways to improve the Election system.
<4> They suggested that states appoint a bi-partisan committee to handle districting issues
<0> If people would implement them
<0> Katey I say go further
<0> remove humans as much as possible
<0> But in objective criteria and let computers calculate the most probably and rational outlines of a district.
<3> bun-bun, yeah, Earle, I just hope DeLay takes his *** to the disiplinary board :-)
<4> well, when you do things electronically, either side will bitch that there was foul play
<1> committees wont cut it.. i think random, with all 'sides' signing off or bearing the cost of generating the next proposed one
<5> So where are the statements of the wtc widows that are horrible?
<4> If both sides weigh in on districting, then both sides will have to **** it up
<1> thats why you force a sign off or the complaining side pays for the next round of proposals
<4> and neither side will be able to complain that they were railroaded by partisan decisions
<1> committees even bi-partisan can get locked up
<0> lets enter the demographics, well ok, this population growth is going on here, and the natural boundaries of this are are between these 2 rivers and these mountains, so the computer says the district shall be within those confines.
<4> bun-bun, they're obligated to come up with redistricting every 10 years
<1> and will because truthfully NEITHER party will want to stop doing the gerrymandering
<4> each state
<0> Thats a very rough example a lot more and better data could be introduced into the logic pattern and it could be tested for bias.
<6> http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/pgStory?contentId=5676192
<0> A representative district should represent the majoriy of people in that district.
<4> you can't get but so locked up, and frankly, I'd rather have a slow process than a corrupt one
<0> Berkeley SHOULD be a democratic Distict.
<0> Concord Shouldnt be
<0> and isnt
<0> Even though we are very close to each other.
<1> no you can completely come to a deadlock in committee and the parties will be able to blame it on the committee
<1> we need to lay the blame and cost on the blockers of progress.... we CAN make a good districting program and both sides can review the logic and rules and such
<4> bun-bun, the constitution obligates each state to redistrict every 10 years
<0> Bi partisan commissions depend on the more honest partisans.
<4> bun-bun, there's no way around that
<0> they dont neccesarily cancel each other out.
<1> katey i know but it doesnt force them to do it without gerrymandering and thats what we are talking about
<0> there are implementations of the 911 commission made into law which dont make any sense.
<4> bun-bun, if it's a bi-partisan committee the chances of biased redistricting are reduced
<1> its the METHOD of redistricting we are talking about
<0> but hey were because the bipartisan non elected officials who drafted it, and then the pople put political pressure to accept it as if it were the holy grail.
<4> you basically negotiate until neither side is completely happy
<4> :)
<4> success!
<1> except what forces them to come to a decision?
<5> http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&day_of_9/11=aa77
<4> bun-bun, the calendar
<1> what happens if they CANT come to agreement.. which happens in committee all the time?
<5> 9:37 a.m.: Flight 77 Crashes into Reinforced Section of the Pentagon
<4> bun-bun, they're forced to come to some sort of agreement
<0> Bun-bun, We are the nation who invented the advanced computer, why dont we use it.
<4> the constitution insists that redistricting occur every 10 years
<1> by what? committess in the government 'deadlock' ALL the time
<1> i agree with FM
<5> 8:25 a.m.: Boston Flight Control Tells Other Centers About Hijack, but Not NORAD
<4> sintient, is NORAD typically informed of hijackings?
<1> develop a program.. have it reviewed and 'signed off' on if one side refuses to sign off for technical reasons.. that 'side' funds the fix
<0> But I also have a wild idea about making 10 congressions districts nationally and they would conduct congressional debates and law making and so forth in a virtual congress.
<0> hehe
<5> It took an hour and 12 minutes for the plane to go known to be hijacked to crashed into the pentagon.
<0> Thats my wild eyed plan
<5> that is what the wtc widow is wondering too I bet
<0> The reasons behind it would be the representatives would be closer to home.
<1> hell you could probably do it with zipcodes as the basis if you wanted
<0> One terrorist attack wouldnt take out the whole congress or government potentially
<5> 7:18 a.m.: Hijack Suspects Set Off Airport Alarms; Allowed to Board Anyway
<4> sintient, it's an important question
<0> Sintient, we all wonder about that.
<5> I don't think it negates the fact that the airline knew the flight was hijacked an hour and change before it hit the pentagon.
<1> I dont... sintient is on my ignore list :)
<4> sintient, if "conspiracy" is being insinuated, it's important to know if the decisions made by air traffic control were any different than in other hijackings
<5> and bun bun was saying that the women was wrong because they said it was known hijacked for an hour and 45 or soemthing
<5> I am not insinuating ANYTHING
<4> sintient, it's fair enough to argue that point.
<0> But hold on, Bush was barely unpacked and in office by the time 9/11 occured, Gore delayed and diminished the degree of transtion and information transition by months because he didnt make hte decision Nixon made when the race was even tigher in 1960, Nixon conceeded..
<5> just that the women that said "why did it the pentagon get hit even when they knew the flight was hijacked for an hour and 45 wasn't completely wrong.
<0> Gore fought to the end to try to get the presidency despite the recounts supporting bush.
<1> 9/11 was in planning stages WELL before bush 43
<5> bun bun was wrong.
<4> sintient, but that doesn't really address the original debate: that the widows have claimed that their criticisms are immune from scrutiny due to their status
<0> That should have never happened.
<4> sintient, and I still haven't seen anything that justifies that statement
<5> No one has posted the wtc widows quotes they claim to be deplored for making.
<0> Floridas law said automatic recount if within 2% I think
<0> Automatic recount was done immediately
<0> same result
<5> Ask bun bun and lupine they are the ones that saay they saw it.
<0> then they tried to perfect an imperfect system.
<1> katey no one claimed that the WIDOWS said that.. they claimed that the media said and implied it
<5> And when bun bun went and looked he found a quote that I just proved to be maybe 30 minutes wrong.
<4> sintient, until I see some evidence, I'm going to ***ume it's a strawman argument
<1> you guys changed the argument to that
<0> Then a trail judge democrat found that the facts didnt support the grounds for a lawsuit.
<5> Of course it is.
<5> No one changed anything.
<5> maybe you jumped in late.
<4> bun-bun, then why defend Coulter's remarks? She attacked the widows personally, not the media
<0> Then the Supreme court did what is very rare and it overturned the facts of a trial court which they just dont do in normal practice.
<7> we will all be driving this soon: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/157_mpg_lightwe.html
<5> The arguement was about whether coulter should attack the wtc widows personally.
<4> She didn't say the media shouldn't avoid criticizing or scrutinizing these women's statements
<5> And no one has posted one bad thing they have said.
<5> I feel vindicated.
<4> she claimed that the widows themselves were behaving badly
<1> katey again you are taking soundbites and reviews as for what she said, instead of reading why/what she said... she also said go to war with france in one of her columns
<5> look bun bun ignored me and I just proved him wrong.
<4> bun-bun, I watched a full interview with the women
<4> woman*
<5> everyone can see it was over an hour before the pentagon plane hit and when the hijacking was known on the ground.
<7> they are scum
<1> which 10's to 100's of the OTHER 9/11 widows think
<4> bun-bun, should I ***ume that she wasn't representing her book accurately?
<7> juts like mike berg and cindy sheehan
<5> The wtc widow has all the right in the world to ask why it had to happen like it did.
<0> Since the trial court was the triar of facts by law and by custom they dont debate the facts of the case, they debate the legal merits of the case, did the judge wrongfully hold out evidence that was legal, did the judge unlawfully dissallow evidence proving the police lost the chain of evidence..
<0> Thos issues are what appeals are based on
<1> you should ***ume that her getting 100 words in edgewise vs matt laurer is probably NOT a fair representation of what she is getting to
<0> not facts of the lower court unless its so absurd.
<7> sintient, all you are saying is ppl have a right to be ****ing idiots... which I agree
<4> bun-bun, lol. She's an experienced TV talking head
<0> But hey to rehash all that again, I was a fool for even bringing it up
<0> But it is related to 911
<4> bun-bun, I should ***ume that she can't represent her own views on TV?
<4> bun-bun, TV appearances are her bread and butter
<5> The Guardian reports that Boston flight control notifies several air traffic control centers that a hijack is taking place. But it does not notify NORAD for another 6-15 minutes, depending on the account. [Guardian, 10/17/2001]
<0> usually the transtion between presidencies includes the sharing of inteligence, information and a lot of things as well as the literal transition of moving in and out.
<4> Freemrkts, can you give Swigert a voice?
<5> So there norad was told either 6 or 15 minutes later after the airline knew.
<0> Thats my only real point
<1> sure katey btw could you condense war and peace into a 10 minute session on irc and get across all the points? OH and bear in mind im gonna take you off subject every 10 seconds
<7> i see the liberal media is desperately trying to minimize Zarqawi's death
<5> That still leaves 1 hour before the pentagon plane hit.
<0> So I would say in reality Bush was in the presidency about 6 months before 911
<4> bun-bun, ah...we're comparing her book to War and Peace? :)
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