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Comments:
<0> Bloc not exactly, and, no they did not
<1> the Neo-Druids
<0> RDNA
<1> whatsat?
<2> rdna?
<3> Take two of the fastest growing major economies in the world, China and India, they have modernity 1 mile away from 1000 year old poverty and ancient superstitious belief systems.
<0> Reorganized Druids of North America ;)
<1> FreeTrade is into the solstice and all that
<1> he observes "samhain"
<3> Which Solstice ?
<3> Easter ?
<0> at one time, I collected "initiations"
<0> Ostra
<0> Samhain is fall
<0> and the new year
<3> Rome was good at adopting and then overtaking pagan holidays :)
<2> hehe
<1> yah its the halloween analog
<0> heh
<2> pilgrim`, i'm pretty sure that was one reason behind lotr
<0> one coudl say
<2> says the documentaries
<1> son of a bitch, i have to reboot
<1> brb
<2> let me see if google can find a referene
<0> Bloc JRR was a phillologist's philologist
<3> IN fact they even incorporate voodism into catholicism in order to get converts from Haiti and the carribeans.
<0> a master of Norse, Kentish Welsh Manx and other obscurities
<2> yes
<0> he knew old Syriac like a native
<2> occ, lotr tidbit:) that's why jrr tolkien created lotr...to make a new folklore cause the romans destroyed everything before that
<0> Bloc read Margret Murray's witch Cults in Western Europe and her later Death and the Divine King
<2> which part of that do you disagree with?
<0> read Evanz-Wentz better known for his Thibetan works: Fairy Faith in Cletic Countries
<4> A Somali-born Dutch MP who calls herself a "dissident of Islam" defends the Danish Muhammad cartoons. Ms Hirsi Ali, speaking in Berlin, said that "today the open society is challenged by Islamism".
<0> review the Mabinogi of the Welsh the Tain of Ireland
<5> pilgrim fairy faith? :)
<4> She added: "Within Islam exists a hardline Islamist movement that rejects democratic freedoms and wants to destroy them." Ms Hirsi Ali criticised European leaders for not standing by Denmark and urged politicians to stop appeasing fundamentalists.
<0> check out some of the Minstral traditions such as the Parcifal cycle
<4> She also said that although the Prophet Muhammad did a lot of good things, his decree that homo***uals and apostates should be killed was incompatible with democracy.
<3> When my wife was a kid they would use an egg and break it.. When a kid was sick and if it had blood in it or something, it meant the kid was going to die if they didnt take quick action to ward off the evil spirits
<0> see the survivals of Scottish Folklore as described by Campbel or in Fraizer's Golen Bough
<2> pilgrim`, i'm not sure where your disagreement is
<2> yes there was a large background of folklore...
<0> TomM yes Fairy Faith a term used generically to describe early celtic religious practices before the days wehn it meant something else
<2> the creatures were not original
<3> The only responsible role of a government is to reject the insult of any other nation, its the job of the free press to determine what they are going to do about it.
<0> JRR used some interesting varriants on Fairie
<3> Rusty thats to you
<5> pilgrim dont get all intellectual on me! :)
<0> compare his work to oh...some of the Sagas
<0> the Wrolf Kraki Saga for example
<5> pilgrim yer given me a friggen headache...geezus enough!!! :)
<0> Bloc btw, I am a witch, and a somewhat pedantic scholarly one ;)
<0> TomM there will be a quiz 4th period
<2> okee:)
<5> :)
<2> i'm batman
<3> Nations dont have a right to insult other nations with cartoons, this is something the people of a nation must decide individually and take responsibility for individually and if you means you die though it shouldnt, You die. And the countries duty is to condemn the death. But contries do not need to make points by standing up for people who profane Christianity, Islam or Judaism or hinduism or Buddhism as fas as I am concerned.
<2> guess we must fight
<4> interestingly enough they changed the part of the article where she stated that Mohammed has through out history been portrayed in mosaics and such
<0> actually Rusty no he has not
<0> his NAME has via Arabic caligraphy
<4> FT, I HIGHLY disagree, the nations have a duty to stand up for the freedoms it espouses, Free speech and such
<5> FT those cartoons didnt insult any country. The percieved insult was to Islam.
<3> Countries should not defend the comics, they should not that its disrespectful and then say but freedom of speech is a big part of our culture even when the speech is inappropriate to a lot of people or insensitive.
<3> TomM, OK Religions and Countries.
<0> Islam is the reason we lost most of the faces on surviving monuments and paintings in Egypt
<3> And or\
<4> picking and choosing whats "good" or "bad" is a form of appeasement
<3> Or ethnicities race or whatever.
<4> just because one is uncomfortable doesn't make it any more wrong or right
<3> States should not engage in this practice, individuals make those choices.
<3> I can do it
<3> My country can not, Or at least should not unless it has a nut job for a president.
<2> pilgrim`, maybe it's cause egyptians should have put up a better fight...
<0> Bloc they were gone by then
<3> I am glad Bush said people should be sensitive to other religions etc, but that free speech is important. Bush handled it perfectly.
<5> FT I see cartoons daily depicting Condi Rice as a parrot, a black one with big lips...I am not a fan of hers, but I find those offensive. I have no plans to burn my neighbors dock! :)
<0> Islam took Egypt circa 640AD by then it was a hodge podge of Greek Roman, Egyptian bedouin and who knows
<3> TomM, Did I justify in anything I said burning someones dock or violence ?
<3> No I didnt
<3> I siad the STATE should not engage in this.
<4> individuals make choices because their country allows them to make that choice, the laws of the government and the rights of the people allow that choice
<4> the right of free speech will not be infringed
<3> But there are real consequences in the world, to being an abortion doctor or to be someone who insults islam, there are enough nuts in Islam you may end up dead.
<4> neither by the government or pissed off individuals
<5> FT no no, you misunderstand my point...No cartoon is an excuse for violence. I think the Moslems protest just to protest and there are other political reasons for the actions.
<3> I am not dying for free speech unless its over something I believe in. And I dont believe in insulting other people regardless of their hypocrisy.
<3> I dont insult Judiasm or Islam or christianity.
<3> But I speak openly about my lack of religion.
<3> To me the three abrahamic religions are basically the same, except i think Christianity or Jesus not neccesarily the followers had a superior moral philosophy
<4> if people are so immature as to turn to violence because of something they read or see that they don't like, thats THEIR problem, the laws of the land do not protect violent reprisal
<3> Jesus was a very wise and comp***ionate man.
<4> in otherwords grow thicker skin
<3> Rusty you are blind to the debate.
<6> Rusty: I agree, these cartoons are like a 1.1 on a scale of 1 to 1000
<3> Noone is justifying violence.
<5> FT what about the recent cartoon of Rumsfeld and the quadraplegic...again, I think Rumsfeld is a reprehensible human being, still I found that cartoon offensive.
<4> shall I be insulted now?
<4> throw a tantrum?
<3> But you might get violence..
<4> heh
<3> YOu should be aware of that.
<6> TomM: did you riot in teh streets, burning down emb***ies and threatning to exterminate an entire nationL?
<4> and i have the right to protect myself
<4> and the laws are on my side
<3> I am agaisnt any violence against any acts of free speech.
<5> Lupine we are having a meeting! :)
<6> FT: sorry, that sounds too much to the old days, of blaming the woman for being raped
<3> even nazis and Nambla.
<3> On the other hand I would use free speech against them.
<4> exactly
<3> I would condemn Nazis and Nambla members.
<4> "The Pen is mightier than the sword"
<6> these cartoons are no where near heinous enough to be censored
<3> Lupine, they are not censored
<3> At least not in the USA or the UK
<3> I cant speak for all nations.
<7> yes they are, the media here will not show them
<6> FT: yes/no. all those who believe they should not be published
<3> But I know we dont, and I know the UK dont.
<3> Self censorship is legitimate.
<3> More people should engage in self censorship.
<6> FT: not when it is extremely hypocritically applied
<3> It would be a better world.
<3> People can believe what they want.
<6> feces on the virgin mary is a few thousand percent more offensive than these cartoons were
<7> well they they should show restraint in other cartoons they puplish
<3> You would deny a right over anger about someones reaction to another right ?
<7> not JUST a muslim cartoon
<4> i personally say, keep printing the crap
<6> JanetB: yes, both on the part of the US media.. AND the arab media
<8> maybe there should be a daily make fun of islam toon
<8> just so they can get over it
<5> but how do you democratize people like this? Our policy now is show them democracy and they will come...Its another example of democracy is not for everyone...at least as we see democracy.
<4> exactly
<6> these dannihs cartoons are not 0.01% as offensive as the arab cartoons are
<4> to make them realise how freakin stupid their reaction to this is
<3> People have the right to do as each individual person decides, you can paint a picture on your car roof if you want.. Or if you are me, I will not depict Muhammad at our website.
<3> Thats a personal choice.
<4> the thing is no one KNOWS what Mohammed looks like
<4> heh
<9> He looked like Kramer.
<1> but we can pretty well imagine
<3> You see.. People often want to do things which are not nice to get even with people whose reaction is not nice.
<6> FT: well, i think www.ircpolitics.org should be equally sensitive to all faiths
<1> i bet he was arabic
<3> I see no logic in that.
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