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Comments:
<0> damn everything works great in win2K
<1> there's no tribalism, no family groupings linked to specific political-military groupings
<2> I hear that the shi'ites hated Saddam mainly because he led a secular government.
<3> Mexcio is full of tribes.
<4> oh get off the damn little pieces of the religions. This is the best way to FAIL at having a democracy
<5> Timur, going to watch the new 10 Commandments tonight? I doubt it'll be a good as Cecil B. DeMille's but....the special effects look good.
<1> hans: what channel?
<4> yeah
<3> there are tribes which identify mroe as indians and some wwith spainards.
<5> ABC
<1> I can't follow the non-threat
<1> -thread
<4> it is a good idea to learn about their ideas
<2> And now, they're of course establishing an islamic theodemcracy
<1> it's too discursive and bizarre
<5> Today is Palm Sunday
<3> There are tribes all over central and eastern europe
<4> but they are no the overriding thign
<3> as well as western europe
<3> and in spain
<3> In India
<3> and in the usa
<1> free: and africa, and asia, and the former ussr, and india, and china.. in fact, everywhere but the americans and like australia
<0> I have exorcised teh demon in WinME
<2> america has tribes
<1> save for a few isolated and marginal areas
<0> *of
<1> e-Hernick: not many meaningful ones
<2> such as the illegal alien tribes
<2> and what about the mormons?
<6> FreeMrkts: Indian tribes are not the same, though. They don't have the kind of solid leadership structure you see among, say, the historical clans of Scotland or the Arab tribes. "Chiefs" were never particularly able to control "their" tribes.
<2> and the scientologists?
<2> well organised tribes
<7> Pickle: then...and now! :)
<1> wow, anthro 101 time
<3> To use tribes as a Perjorative only means I must remind people we are all from tribes. and many of us still are members of tribes. A super tribe might be a nationality like the germans who come from tribal history
<3> Pickle, Some chiefs had absolute control of tribes and others didnt. Some smoked hallucinogens but many never did.
<3> For example the hopi indians.
<8> mormons, little Italy, Chinatown
<0> mormons aren't a tribe though
<3> they never smoked marijuana or any drug
<0> more of a sect
<2> there were some matriarchal tribes too
<1> except that'd only be relevant to Iraq if the Sunnis had a nation, the Shi'a had a nation, and the Kurds had a nation, each comprising part of what was formerly Iraq.
<0> or rather... a whole religion
<3> There peace pipe was a sweet flower which had a scent not really a smoke like we consider smoke.
<2> Timur-: the sunnis will never go for that, because their nation wouldn't have any oil
<1> once there was some ice cream
<1> and I ate it
<1> and it tasted nice
<3> Timur, But the point is you came in here and took one statement as per usual and twisted it all out of hell
<1> I was happy
<3> And then the topic is completely changed again
<9> Timur-, what flavor?
<4> heh
<1> Free: no, the point is what you call restraint is not total restraint, but it is less than all-out civil war
<8> This silly circular argument is worse than arguing the freaking holocaust
<3> I never said total retraint you stupid bigot
<10> #teenage !!!
<1> Katey there was Vanilla. And then there was Chocolate. Chocolate was invented by the Mexicans. The Spanish killed the Mexicans and took the Chocolate. As an American I benefit from the Spanish conquest. I am glad to be an American. Chocolate is nice.
<1> Free: I didn't say you did, I was qualifying it. You insulting person. :)
<9> I like cherry vanilla
<3> I didnt even imply total restraint
<1> cherries are from trees.
<4> elitism is lovely
<4> heh
<3> that would be idiotic
<1> I like trees
<0> sigh
<1> America has a lot of trees
<2> once, I saw a kitten, and it was cute, so I thought to myself: if one could raise m*** numbers of kittens in farm-like condition, it would become possible to make fur coats out of their pelts - and those would sell for vast amounts of money. however, the government had already p***ed laws that made it impossible to enter this lucrative market. Why restrict freedom in such a way?
<9> I'm considering a weeping cherry tree for the front yard
<4> get over it
<1> sometimes, people chop down trees.
<1> they may need firewood.
<6> FreeTrade: A good example of the lack of formalized leadership structure in indian tribes is what happened in Saskatchewan with the North-West Rebellion. Most tribal "leaders" opposed the indians joining the Metis in rebellion, and were duly ignored, because being a chief just didn't mean a hell of a lot in indian society.
<0> don't encourage e-Hernick. HIs jokes are bad
<1> Free: well, there was an ambiguity in the term 'restraint'
<6> FreeTrade: In Arab society, on the other hand, the authority of tribal leaders is absolute, and those who disobey are severely punished.
<8> making kittens into coats is crazy--they are supposed to be slippers
<1> especially since it was described as 'remarkable', so, the question then is in what way is it remarkable, and to what extent isn't it?
<3> Timur the point is the term tribe though apt is used to denigrate arabs, they dont all come from tribes, and then we never mention that Israel is also comprised of tribes. officially noted by their goverment..
<3> Or Pickle I mean
<1> Free: no, it's not used to denigrate them, but to accurately describe their actual culture.
<0> I am so ****ing happy -- I have exorcised teh demon of "WinME" from my desktop PC
<3> I know morrocans who are arab and were never part of any tribe in the way people visualize a tribe.
<2> arab countries don't tend to be as free or as democratic or as secular as israel is
<1> being truthful isn't denigrating, necessarily.
<9> eh. I don't see it a pejorative really
<0> it is gone, and I have my user files. YAY
<9> it's just the way it is
<1> Israel isn't composed of tribes.
<3> the closest to a tribe he got to was rastafaran morrocan.
<3> Timur the hell it isnt
<11> US, replaced it with win-xp demon?
<0> and it only cost me $100
<3> It is by religion and even by state.
<1> Free: example?
<6> FreeMrkts: The vast majority come from tribes, and there's nothing denigrating about that fact, any more than it denigrates Scots to point out that their traditional governance structure is the clan. And refusing to acknowledge this important fact is why our middle east policy often fails.
<0> UrbnLgnd: win2K
<11> good for you
<2> rastafarianism.. what a hateful, racist ideology
<0> XP annoys me
<9> Many people in that part of the world live in a very old world sort of culture
<1> ok, that's a religion and set of cultures within a greater culture
<0> win2k Pro
<1> a tribe means specific lineages
<3> The diaspora is all about the lost tribes and zionism is all about bringing the lost tribes togehter again
<11> after you take the hour to weed out all the xp UI-isms, it's usable :)
<0> I should have done that years ago
<3> Ethipian Jew is not a specific lineage ?
<1> A unit of sociopolitical organization consisting of a number of families, clans, or other groups who share a common ancestry and culture and among whom leadership is typically neither formalized nor permanent.
<9> FreeMrkts, modern Israelis don't identify with their tribe
<3> Israeli government thought so..
<2> like when they airlifted the Beta Israel jew tribe from ethiophia?
<2> sure, that's a tribe
<3> Katey shut the **** up
<1> it's a lineage, but not answerable to a particular family
<0> yeah I use win2K at my job since it came out
<1> or leader
<3> Some do and some dont
<2> but most jews in israel aren't tribal
<11> but why do that when you can install 2k in the same amount of time?
<3> If you are that ignorant dont speak
<6> Every arab state is governed by a particular tribe or clan. Examples are the Sauds (Saudi Arabia), and the Hashemites (Jordan).
<0> so I observed its stability
<9> ...
<3> Some identify as tribal and some dont
<3> thats a FACT
<3> its not a suposition
<3> Its a FACT
<8> free--good luck with that definition since the Jews who inhabit Israel today are non semites and are not related to the Palestinian Jews of the Bible--they arte ashkenazi Jews.
<2> FreeMrkts: would you agree that nowadays, most jews, israelis or not, do not identify themselves strongly enough with a tribe to take orders from tribal leadership?
<6> Only Egypt bucks this trend officially, but dig down a bit into Egyptian politics and you'll find a tribal hierarchy.
<1> it's not tribal in the sense that family hierarchies exercise political power as such, as in Arab countries
<7> Pickle: Canada used to be that way - its leaders came from wealthy Ontarians
<9> It's my understanding that Israeli society is fairly modern
<11> this channels a bit busy at the moment... i'll get back to work and let you all simmer down.
<1> only an ignorant person would state such
<0> Alton: horsepoop
<3> Read the Israeli Goverments Account of the rescue of the ethiopian jewish tribe.
<1> Katey: it is. A secular government.
<9> Tribalism is an older world sort of culture
<1> Free: it has nothing to do with the exercise of power by family-tribal groupings, which doesn't exist.
<3> The official account which of course is fluffed a lot but read it its interesting.
<1> which is what I mean by tribalism.
<1> which is endemic to Arab countries.
<8> US--do you know what ashkenazi is as compared to sephardim?
<2> FreeMrkts: the ethiopian Beta Israel tribe is very small. Do you agree that most jews and israelis aren't tribal?
<9> eh. **** it. ttyl
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