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Comments:
<0> That doesn't make it right
<1> Here's another reason to detest liberals.....
<0> or good
<2> it shouldn't be taught to **** around.
<1> "Rebecca took out a life insurance policy on herself four years ago. She made her daughter the beneficiary. She was 51.
<3> I think in Herzen's ideal world everyone would be bland worker drones =x
<4> icmps: I have to disagree
<2> But people are going to do it whether you teach them to or not.
<5> ThaEpic: Nothing society does is coercive; everything governments do is.
<4> I actually agree it isn't the same way
<1> She believed that her husband was going to kill her. It was just a matter of time. She believes it still, even though she left him in 2001 and went underground through the California Confidential Address Program
<4> but society does give us our standards
<0> OldSchool, In Herzen's ideal world, it is the 1930s
<4> in most aspects
<0> without the Jazz and Club culture
<1> She uses a phony address in Sacramento provided by the program (and is not using her real name for this column) to remain hidden.
<1> Last summer, there were signs he had found her.
<6> it is government's job to be coercive.
<1> So Rebecca started carrying a gun inside a pouch in her purse.
<1> What happened next is a sobering reminder of how the legal system is still struggling to understand the complex and vulnerable lives of battered women.
<2> Herzen, wtf.
<2> Jazz > *
<7> Ah, intrigue.
<0> P_O, Early Jazz = lots of drugs and promiscuity
<5> Jakyl: That doesn't make it good:) But, yeah.
<0> The music is good
<0> but the culture was ****
<2> Herzen, so? It's godly music.
<1> Rebecca had owned the gun since escaping from her husband. She bought it after the required 10-day waiting period and registered it in her name. She knew the police couldn't always be around to protect her. A gun leveled the playing field against a man bigger and stronger than she was.
<0> extract the culture from the music and we're golden
<8> **** the 30's....go for the 40's.
<1> Maybe it would save her from becoming one of the 1,300 people killed in the United States each year in domestic violence attacks.
<1> One evening last August, Rebecca was making the long drive home from Mill Valley, where she had to drop off some papers for a client. She stopped at an Albertsons supermarket in Half Moon Bay. She paid for her groceries, picked up the shopping bag and her wallet but left her purse at the end of the checkout counter
<2> and like I say, I don't have much problem with drugs or promiscuity.
<0> P_O, You're youn
<0> g
<4> Day after day we are bombed with ad's telling us how to dress, what to buy, what car to get, how to cut our hair, even what jobs to take
<0> just wait til you get to be old
<0> OLD
<1> The momentary lapse plunged her into a legal mess that has turned her from victim to criminal. She was arrested for carrying a loaded gun and sentenced last month by a San Mateo County court to 10 days in jail and 18 months' proba
<4> on the radio, on TV, hell even driving around
<2> Herzen, what about being old would affect my stances on those two?
<1> probation
<1> Her conviction means she can no longer possess a gun, and it might jeopardize her participation in the Confidential Address Program.
<1> "I'm 55 years old,'' Rebecca said by phone. "I've never committed a crime. I'm not a threat to anybody.''
<5> ThaEpic: That's not even remotely 'society' telling us by what standards to live.
<0> Probably more life experience, different social culture and crowd
<2> Herzen, and you aren't even old your self, you're one to talk :P
<0> I'm like double your age
<1> Rebecca didn't think she needed a permit to carry a concealed weapon because California law waives the permit requirement for anyone who "reasonably believes that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order.'' Rebecca had a restraining order against her husband.
<2> Herzen, you're still not old.
<4> icmps: sure it is, b,c society gobbles it up
<4> thus creating the status quo
<1> What she didn't know was that the restraining order, which she understood to be permanent, had expired in June.
<1> "The restraining order would have been enough to take it to a jury trial,'' said Ben Lamarr, the lawyer who represented her in court. "It would have created a technical defense, but without that, she didn't have anything.''
<2> Herzen, I have adult friends who have decades on you :P
<0> P_O over*
<8> I don't understand the anti-gun mentality of Liberals/socies/commies, etc.
<5> ThaEpic: Admittedly society, in mostly a localized nature, tends to 'govern' what are "acceptable" but by no means does it FORCE that.
<4> Drop a Bradly instead
<1> More important, the conviction leaves Rebecca more vulnerable than ever to her abusive husband. For one, the district attorney's office mistakenly included her actual street address on all its documents, which are public record. The office was scrambling on Friday to delete the information.
<4> icmps: Out-right force us?
<4> No
<4> Subliminaly force us?
<4> Maybe
<1> And two, she now has no protection. (I wonder whether San Francisco voters considered domestic violence situations when they voted in November to ban all handguns and what consequences women like Rebecca might pay.)
<0> http://www.mnh.si.edu/exhibits/mammals/PolarBear2.gif
<0> Redfish is owned.
<5> ThaEpic: A community can say what is an acceptable type of behavior, but it has no means of forcing it like a government does. That's what I objected to earlier..
<5> ThaEpic: It's an important distinction.
<4> Marketing and advertising isn't "telling" someone so much as "suggesting" to them using pyscology
<2> Twobar, handguns aren't the only way to deal with domestic violence... but yeah that's messed.
<1> The law against carrying concealed guns makes good sense. But so many women every year are killed by their abusive boyfriends and husbands. Restraining orders, as we know, can't stop them. The police often can't stop them. I don't know what the solution is. But something's wrong when, in trying to keep herself alive, the terrorized woman becomes the criminal.
<1> PO, there is no "only" way.
<2> Twobar, then you agree with me :P
<4> icmps: I do understand your point though
<0> Twobar, at this point in Canada its almost impossible to protect yourself legally
<1> PO, and you miss the point. The point is, SHE is now the criminal.
<0> Self-defense is ridiculously difficult to prove
<0> even with witnesses
<1> Herzen, yep. I despise leftism, as most know, and that is probably the main reason why
<2> Here self-defense works as a loophole.
<7> The concealed carry argument is over. I'm afraid ultra-brainy liberals lost.
<5> Yay for our judiciary!
<1> In Leftism, self defense is illegal. the most common sense thing in human nature, in the world, and leftism wants it ILLEGAL
<0> Twobar, I don't necessarily despise moderate Liberalism, if they want to be a little left of center thats fine
<2> I need to talk to this leftism guy.
<9> lol 'leftism'
<0> Twobar, The biggest problems I have are with very socially permissive idealogies
<6> ****: The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
<6> Cade: Nay, that I mean to do. William Shakespeare, Henry the Sixth, Part II
<5> Twobar: How else are they to have the entire population dependent on the state?
<10> I like leftists...they always know what's best for me.
<1> PO, easy. Pick any democrat in office. ANY ONE YOU WANT TO NAME
<0> like Libertarianism, Anarchism, Socialism, and other forms of Far-leftists
<11> muhahaha
<9> socialism is an idea
<6> yes
<5> Twobar: Quickest way is to prohibit self-defense and force reliance on state-run protection services ..
<6> a bad idea
<2> Twobar, I don't care about democrats, I don't even know who's currently in office now.
<8> Libertarianism is far leftism?
<9> self defence is only illegal in a socialist country if the leadres make itr that way
<9> and there is currently nowhere where it is like that..
<1> PO, I know.
<11> NO GUNS! =) Criminals RIGHTS! TERRORIST NO! Freedom fighters YES! Marry Christmas .. DONT YOU DARE! Happy Holidays for you beotch!
<0> Yankee27, Libertarianism which as a knee-jerk socially permissive idealogy is
<1> thirdeye, it is illegal in any leftist country, to a large extent
<0> Yankee27, for instance, the pro-marijuana lobby basically clings to Libertarianism as reasoning
<12> look like a troll
<9> one example
<9> gime one example
<7> There's a reason it's illegal.
<13> th1rd3ye - Its a STUPID idea
<7> I mean, a philosophical reason.
<2> Herzen, they also cling to the whole "most drug laws are really stupid" thing too.
<1> thirdeye, Canada, as Herzen just said. Mexico, Brazil, most of south america, China, Russia
<2> Because well, most drug laws are really stupid.
<5> Heh.
<8> drug legalization is but one ISSUE that LIbertarians care about
<1> What other leftist countries are there in the world..
<9> you guys dont understand what socialism is then
<8> by far, not the most important one.
<12> what we need is World Socialism
<0> Yankee27, the idealogy is too socially permissive for me =)
<0> Thats all I can say
<12> you guys just don't understand socialism
<4> The only part one needs to understand about Socialism is the dollars flying out of your *** for taxes part
<1> US, yes. We can roll with that. YOu guys just dont understand socialism
<4> That should be enough
<7> thirdeye: We eagerly await learning everything we would ever want to know from you.
<12> yup
<8> That's your view. But it's not far-leftist.
<7> No. Really.
<9> ok well what is your view or definitioin of socialism
<5> Herzen: I really dont see how you can purport to have the authority to tell anyone else how to live..
<0> Yankee27, I think it depends on the libertarian, some of them are pretty ridiculous
<9> ill try to get it on track
<8> some...not the majority
<0> icmps is pretty ridiculous =)
<1> thirdeye, please do. We eagerly await your school book definiton
<7> Herzen has some authority. He appears to be at least marginally concerned about the true, the good, and the beautiful.
<7> There's hope. Sort of.
<6> the nationale
<12> internationale
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