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Comments:
<0> that's what i just said dumb***
<1> Feliz, read about tar sands in Canada, they are looking for 100,000 workers, guess why.
<0> christ
<0> lol
<2> presumably after the the "peak" of something, there's decline
<3> Feliz yet, you claimed before that we are at peak, therefor we will have less oil... that doesn't logically follow
<0> thetailor, I have read about the tar sands and it's just not as cheap as oil, plain and simple
<4> Katey: In the interim period demand rises and so does price, gradually pricing oil consumers out of the market. Since Peak Oil doesn't mean a decline in supply, there will be no sharp "crisis".
<1> Feliz, it IS oil.
<0> kobushi, well, I think we're in the vicinity of the peak, there's no dipstick to stick in the ground unfortunately - I am saying that after the peak there will be less users of oil
<0> thetailor, it's not conventional oil, it's more expensive to get out of the ground
<0> thus the price goes up
<4> Katey: And really, there is no "interim period". Alternatives to oil already exist, they are merely less economical than oil at its current price. As that changes the alternatives will increase in popularity commensurate to that change.
<3> Feliz sure; but you are overreacting... yu act as if the peak, and a decin are going to happen like within a year's time of each other
<3> Feliz but that isn't the case. Once the peak is reached it will take a long time to begin a decline
<5> feliz, not sure on the spelling....ready about the "bakken" formation in western north dakota...estimated a million barrels per square mile
<3> and any such decline will be slow
<1> Feliz, not at todays prices it's not
<5> ready=read
<0> kobushi, well, you could be right, I don't think we have any way of knowing what will happen - a lot of it depends on what we do now
<6> We need for oil to get expensive, to initiate the change to alternatives, then we need to leave the middle east out to dry
<6> let them drink their oil
<4> In any event, market forces are all that we need to cause the shift from oil to alternatives in the "Peak Oil" theory.
<3> as for oil sands; canadian oil sands comparnies made $834 Million in profit in 2005...
<3> so oil sands are certainly profitable
<0> kobushi, once people actually realize that oil and everything that goes with that is going to get more and more expensive FOREVER, I think there will be some serious problems :)
<4> KoBushi: And becoming moreso rapidly.
<3> ($834 million out of a $1 billion turnover btw)
<0> people are spoiled
<4> Tar sands extraction is a technology in extremely fast transition at the moment.
<3> I agre we are possibly approaching "peak" oil (ie: a static X barrels/day)
<7> hello
<3> because we are no finding oil sources as fast anymore... but th sources we have are m***ive
<0> most people say you can't see a peak til at least a few years after
<4> The biggest problem with "Peak Oil" is not the theory itself, but the dullards who don't understand how economics works.
<8> yuck i hate feeding my cat
<3> also, the efficiency with which we can create useable product from that oil is increasing greatly
<0> the point is, eventually cheap energy is going to go away and that's what fuels economic growth
<4> Who therefore think that "Peak Oil" predicts a crisis of some sort.
<8> this cats the biggest slob you ever seen
<5> rusty, feed the cat to the dog then
<0> the economy needs to be restructured, how we grow food, how we get ourselves around, everything
<8> HAHAHAHAHAH
<1> Feliz, cheap energy, at least as far as oil is concerned, is history.
<8> yowz i have tried
<0> pickle, of course it's going to be a crisis if nobody even prepares for it
<8> the dog is only slightly bigger than the cat
<4> Feliz: Why?
<8> hahahah
<8> my cat is 28 lbs
<0> thetailor, that's what I was trying to communicate by saying we are at or near the peak
<3> Feliz there were simular "scares" reguarding the lack of wood for energy in the UK... and later scares over the lack of Coal for energy in industrializing nations.
<8> in a month or two i will have my digi cam and i will show you my cat hehehe
<0> pickle, for the same reason Katrina was a problem, nobody prepared for it
<3> Feliz there is a huge list of ways to harness energy
<5> that ain't no cat
<8> Ahhhhh....
<0> if you don't prepare for something you know is coming, you're probably in trobule
<4> Feliz: No, Katrina and Peak Oil have nothing whatsoever to do with each other as phenomena.
<7> `426Hemi: meoooowwwww
<8> GOOOD sippin' whiskey
<4> Feliz: We've never had to "prepare" for peak resource issues in the past--alternatives have always been gradually adopted as the price of the peak resource rose commensurate to demand.
<0> pickle, i was simply using it as an example
<8> Command its more like Mooooowww
<1> Feliz, well so what, the price is high, move to something else or conserve.
<1> Peak, ba
<8> there is no Mee in it hjehhehee
<4> Feliz: I know you were. It was a bad example.
<5> mayor nagin prepared....when asked what his opinion on roe vs. wade was he said..."i don't care how you do it...get the FRICK OUUTA TOWN!!!"
<8> he has this way of doing this Rawwwr" thing
<8> bddduhrawwhr!
<8> he will bite your *** out of pleasure
<8> you will be petting him and then CHOMP!
<7> `426Hemi: sounds like you love your kitty. why don't you get him a friend so he doesn't have to spend all his time only with you
<4> Feliz: For example, we didn't have to "prepare" for the Whale Oil Energy Crisis. Market forces solved the problem.
<0> thetailor, do you know how many clueless people there are walking around? Do you think "reason" will be their first resort when this stuff starts happening?
<8> Command no other cats will have him
<8> hahahah he beats them up
<8> i have tried to take other strays in
<8> he chases them off
<3> Feliz when what "stuff" starts happening? The only "stuff" that will happen is prices increasing
<8> kicks their ***es
<0> the "invisible hand" is not going to solve this energy crisis IMO although I'm glad it's at least starting to grasp at straws
<7> `426Hemi: I'm sure if you just leave the two of them in the house eventually they'll get used to each other
<4> "Peak Oil" will not be a crisis. It will merely mark the transition from oil to alternatives as energy sources.
<0> kobushi, you say "only" as if that won't have a profound effect on people
<5> i hate cats, won't allow them in the house, in my yard, but have one here at shop to control mice
<3> Feliz it won't, because it won't be so dramatic as you pretend
<1> Feliz, when what 'stuff starts happening'?
<0> pickle, I love your optimism and I hope you're right, unfortunately I am not so optimistic.
<8> Command, I leave my dog and the cat alone in the house
<1> Feliz, what 'stuff' is going to happen?
<8> thats bad enough
<8> hehehe
<0> the "stuff" we've been talking about, energy prices going up
<3> Feliz people aren't going to start killing each other in the street because they have to pay $1/gal more for fuel
<4> Feliz: A condition that can only be attributed to a lack of understanding of the immutability of market forces. They laws of economics do not change.
<8> energy prices won't go up
<8> Iran doesn't effect us
<0> ahhhh
<8> we don't get oil from Iran
<0> you people are living in a dream world
<1> Feliz, so use half of what you use now, no problem.
<0> lol
<8> uhmm
<8> no
<8> yer just a dumb ***
<8> =)
<0> yeah, that must be it
<4> Feliz: Comments like that don't make your case, they merely mark you as a fanatic.
<8> Iran doesn't effect our oil prices
<8> we don't get Oil from Iran
<8> we have been embargoing oil from Iran since about 1976
<2> Oil prices are what they are. If Iran affects the overall price of oil, that will affect the US
<1> Feliz, do tell us, what exactly is going to happen when gas is $5 / gal?
<8> they have no interest or dollar on the US market
<2> Regardless of where we get our oil
<3> Feliz however, some important steps need to be taken... I don' think we need any government subsidies, HOWEVER... what we do need is for the government to stop BLOCKING alternative energy initiatives
<3> TheTailor we'll be the UK :P
<4> "We" don't have oil prices to affect. We buy off the world market like everyone else, at that price.
<8> there might be a slight change from 2.60 now to 2.75 because of speculation
<0> thetailor, how should I know? Because we don't know does that mean we shouldn't think about it?
<8> but Iran has no bearing on US oil demand or supply
<8> its NOT our problem
<3> Feliz Japan already pays about $9USD/gal for gasoline; the UK nearly $6
<2> Pickle, yep.. that's what I was saying.
<8> its European problem
<4> No, it's the world's problem.
<8> not really
<4> There isn't an American price for oil.
<0> kobushi, I agree with you there, not only is there little to no political will to address the problem, most of it is just making profits off the problem
<8> the majority of the world can make up for the loss of Iran
<2> The price for a barrell of oil is a world market price
<1> Feliz, so you are frightened of the future, whatever the case may be?
<4> There's the world price for oil, affected by the global supply, the global demand, and nothing else.
<2> If that price goes up or down, it affects the US
<8> the majority of the world out produces Iran nearly on a 4-1 barrel basis
<8> Iran is a hiccup
<3> Feliz all that needs to happen is for the gov to take down the barriers ie: New Jersy banning wind generators
<0> the entire argument that "we'll come up with something, don't worry" just doesn't hold any water with me
<3> and the problem will be slowly solved
<0> this seemingly blind faith in markets to solve our problems
<2> Isn't Iran one of the largest producers in the world?
<3> Feliz it's a technological issue... there are already viable tecnologies
<3> Feliz we already HAVE solutions
<1> Feliz, you don't even know if we need to come up with something.
<2> Feliz, well that's generally a fundamental aspect of conservative ideoloty
<0> kobushi, well, it's a question of how much time before it becomes a major problem vs how much time is it going to take to make the switch
<3> Feliz it's a matter of them being economicaly viable in comparison to the current methods
<2> ideology, rather
<3> Feliz yu act like it's a binary thing
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