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Comments:
<0> thats a huge rub
<1> however, my standpoint and the constitutional stand point to this is that a) its not governments responsibility to educate your child under penalty of inprisonment if you refuse to comply and b) the power that the government schools have is not only in alot of cases abusive, but also an unnecessary expansion of government in the first place
<2> I think the point is saying 'they're all bad' is just as wrong and fallacious as saying 'they're all ok'
<0> who said all
<1> if youre gonna get knocked up, get someone knocked up, or otherwise have a child, their education should be your concern, not the governments
<3> i've decided the newspaper headlines should all read "More Cartoon Violence!"
<3> thats a convenient attitude for you to have, since you dropped out yourself
<2> the sentiment seems to be 'destroy public schools'.
<0> who said destroy ?
<3> i think we should strengthen public schools
<2> well, let's see
<0> how about reform
<2> reform is fine
<0> how about get rid of unions
<2> but the way in which reform is carried out is crucial
<0> how about vouchers
<2> yeah, what would the effect of getting rid of unions be
<2> fewer people would go into teaching
<0> how about giving parents more control concerning districting
<2> hence there'd be less competition
<2> hence there'd be lower, not higher, teacher quality
<0> Private schools do fine without unions
<0> hmmmm
<3> define "fine"
<0> No
<0> fine is common knowledge amoung parents
<2> they do when they have parents who can spend $15K/student
<2> per year
<0> hmmm
<0> private schools here start a lot lower
<3> i think private schools are a good solution for educating upper-middle cl*** students of average or above intelligence
<2> so do public teacher salaries, probably
<3> i'm not convinced they're a "fine" solution to do what public schools do
<0> and if parents didn't have to spend 6000.00 + per year on public schools no matter what then more could afford other choices
<3> i think some people who advocate more private schools really just want to abandon the mission public schools perform
<0> as in vouchers
<2> Null: it's pretty clear.
<0> No keep the good public schools
<0> drop the bad ones
<3> "parents" don't spend money on public schools, property owners do. it's distributed far more broadly than parents.
<0> Nulll who pays the property taxes in apts
<0> not the owner of the apt
<0> that is p***ed down
<3> at least more broadly than parents with kids in school at that time
<2> 'dropping' the bad ones really doesn't improve them
<0> lol
<2> it just leaves a bunch of kids.. without schools.
<3> sometimes it is p***ed down and sometimes it isn't, it depends on market conditions
<0> lets keep the bad ones Yipppiie
<2> reforming them is what's necessary
<3> sometimes appts rent for less than the mortgage + taxes + insurance
<2> no, change them.
<0> prop them up yippie !!!
<2> ok, rant on, without addressing the point, fine
<3> <2> ok, rant on, without addressing the point, fine <-- that's the irc way!
<0> Timur does it all the time
<3> well you're on a bit of a roll yourself today
<3> your fingers are going faster than your brain
<0> so don't try to be so condescending by the pot calling the kettle black
<0> and I did address the point exactly
<0> I addressed it from my persepctive which was...drop them
<0> give vouchers let only the strong survive
<3> i am not convinced that "screw you guys i'm goin' home" is a good economic plan
<0> we just dissagree on this and your's and timurs answers was "Don't address"
<2> no, I'm addressing the point of what should be done to improve education.
<2> and abandoning schools isn't doing that.
<2> letting only the strong survive seems to ignore the point of how those kids will get an education for those schools that haven't made it
<2> kill the bad schools, but.. don't replace them with a viable option
<2> gee, that's brilliant
<3> Timur that's because conveniently, advocates of such plans don't give a damn about that
<0> lol
<0> Null_ptr you have children ?
<0> I know Timur doesn't
<2> Null: right
<2> I don't, but I have wonderful students whom I care about
<1> An Atlanta City Council committee recommended the full council scrap Mayor Shirley Franklin's order that temporarily blocked construction of so-called .McMansions. . expansive, new houses built on small lots in old neighborhoods.
<3> no, those babies don't live
<0> Null_ptr you have children ?
<1> "McMansion"
<1> good god
<2> not having kids doesn't make me not care, or have insights into education or education policy.
<0> No but it does give you a huge hole in your understanding
<0> and your persepctive
<2> but maybe 'making bad choices' in HS can diminish that ability
<2> what 'understanding', rond
<0> Uhhhh being a parent
<0> talking to other parents as an expercienced parent
<2> which has what to do with the notion of education policy, exactly?
<0> absolutly
<2> huh?
<0> nothing like non parents dictating choices and policies for parents
<2> some educators are parents
<2> but parents who don't know about education. . shouldn't really define educational policy.
<3> is that anything like MEN having an option on ABORTION?
<2> educators.. should
<2> let's see
<0> lol
<2> that's like saying
<2> I use a toilet
<3> how can they when they can't GIVE BIRTH?
<2> so I'm a plumber.
<0> lets let the liberals take care of us
<0> thats the basis of that argument
<2> ok, again, a total abandonment of the issue
<0> we know how your just a dumb parent
<2> no, it's called people who know what the hell they're talking about
<2> well, you're not stunning me with your insights.
<0> if that is the case timur why are so many upset about he current situation
<2> because there's a whole matrix of dysfunction
<2> and no simple or easy solution
<0> why don't we have the system already that doen't need an overhaul
<2> why don't we? because things change
<0> the educators are he ones who built the system and 10's of millions are upset
<2> and systems lag to accomodate that change and respond to it effectively.
<0> some do some don't
<2> this one clearly does.
<0> and that is the problem this one does
<0> this one =s too much of the public school system
<2> and because it's such a complex and interrelated and mutually dependent set of systems - social values, home values, school structure, etc - it's a hugely complex set of issues, problems, and people often disagree on possible and likely solutions
<0> sooooo lets just leave it up to the educators *they know* !!!!!!
<2> well, begging the question, compared to what
<3> no lets leave it up to some dumb*** on irc
<2> yes, educators tend to know.. about education
<0> Parents stay out !!!!
<4> that's me
<0> Null_ptr you don't even have children so you should stay out
<2> parents who don't know about education should get some, if they hope to have a chance of being involved in helping improve things.
<5> rond: Well
<0> same with you astro
<5> Parents tend to be idiots.
<3> rond you don't have a clue so you should stay out as well
<2> parents who talk out their *** pretty much are guaranteed to be ignored, as is appropriate.
<5> Teachers tend to be slightly less idiotic, overall.
<0> Null_ptr based on what
<6> whoa...
<3> based on this entire exchange
<2> Astro: at least wherein education is concerned, yea
<5> Timur: Heh.
<2> I'm a teacher, but I think I should tell NASA how to run
<2> because, after all, I pay taxes.
<0> Oh know its liberal hour !!!!!
<2> even though I have no idea about astrophysics
<5> Years ago, my dad was on the school board. He absolutly hated parents. :P
<0> LOL teaching school childern is not rocket science
<2> yeah, it's 'liberal' to acknowledge that 1. many parents are not well educated and/or 2. don't have a clue about educational policy.
<0> don't even try to compare youself to that one
<7> I had an *awesome* lucid dream last night, in full colour and such. I watched King Kong last evening, and the dream had some parallels... But my dream was in more of a fantasy setting, with magic, dragons, and some sort of village.
<2> actually it's vastly complex, but that's not the comparison I was makig.
<0> 1 + 1 = 2
<0> 2 + 2 = 4
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