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Comments:
<0> icmps Russia is in Europe and Asia geographically speaking
<1> Rebec: Why you think that is?
<2> true but I dont think we had the support of the UNSC for Iraq.
<0> Thumper I'm not sure considering how much oil we get from Venezuela you'd think we'd care
<3> is it possible oil isn't the only thing that drives our foreign policy
<2> The propaganda machine sure as hell is cranked up at full speed against Iran if we arent planning to bomb them in the near future..
<4> nytol
<5> brb... pizza-age
<6> four more wars!
<7> We need Russia and China for pressure on Iran and North Korea. And disengagment will bot bring feedom to their people sooner, engagement is better.
<0> Free I think McCain gets that though. I mean I voted for him in the primary last time around.
<7> I dont think ww3 is close.
<7> Who against who ?
<1> Rebec: I think this Hugo Chavez *** is no fool. He's going to keep selling us oil and using the money to fund his commie revolution in other SA nations.
<0> China vs the United States actually when I did my internship in 1998 that was the prediction for between 4-40 years down the road
<7> Rebec, Yeah I hope so, he has said some things before that as a congressman doesnt bother me but as a president it would.
<0> thumper of course
<3> siknce when have world wars been "who against who?"
<0> Free remember he's from Arizona they talk differently there.
<6> the problem with the current axis of evil is that they're too weak..
<7> ICMPS, unless Iran backs off we will bomb the hell of them if Israel doesnt do it first. Ideally it would be a multi lateral bombing mission with Nato
<0> hernick lol
<7> Israel ordered something like 400 bunker busters from us.
<8> I want to see Israel's Air Force in actionnn,.
<3> bombing Iran is not even an option
<7> Those arent for playin in the sand.
<0> I feel sorry for the population in Iran
<6> I think that if India team up with the Revolutionary Pan-Arabic Caliphate, then we can have a real world war
<7> Rebec, me too.
<2> FreeTrade: Backs off of what?
<3> Iran has taken a leadership position in the "Islam vs. The West" culture war/clash -- bombing Iran is not happening (barring serious stupid behavior by Iran)
<0> Free it's so not what they want...
<7> Rebec you remember in Queen Noors book when she discussed working in Iran when the shah was in power ?
<0> icmps of the mullah's retoric
<2> They have just as much a right as anyone else to develop nuclear energy.
<7> That was an interesting part of her book.
<0> Free I didn't read her book yet, but I remember you telling me about it yes
<2> MAD is a sufficient deterrent for them to not use nuclear weapons.
<0> She's an interesting person
<8> icmps: In my opinion, the USA should be the only one with nukes.
<0> icmps I am not sure they understand MAD because they are MAD
<8> Or at least someone respectable.
<2> Crispy`: Pipe dream ?
<6> Iran having the bomb doesn't worry me so much. But if Iran has the bomb, they are in the perfect position to form the Pan-Arabic Caliphate, and *that* is scary.
<3> the world has already shown that it is fine with allowing rogue nations to pursue nuclear ambitions - what makes u think Iran will get bombed?
<0> crispy no one should have nukes really....
<3> you guys are way too trigger happy
<8> Because nukes shouldn't even exist.
<7> This is why I would never support a war on the people or against the military, I would bomb their military back 5 years (Try to hit installations not troops) and bomb their nuclear program back 10 years.
<8> Rebec: Exactly.
<3> i think you hope it more than you think it will happen
<8> But you can't just get rid of them.
<2> Crispy`: Half of europe, Israel, Russia, China, Pakistan, India, Korea .. Who else ?
<1> I think it's time we had a General run for president. They make the best ones IMO
<8> So SOMEONE has to have them.
<0> crispy I know
<2> It's too late to think we can stop the "proliferation" of nukes.
<8> To keep the rebels in check.
<2> It's a waste of our time and resources.
<0> but the Iranian government is run by mad fanatics sadly
<9> canibud: This rogue nation is too close to Israel and they won't tolerate it.
<10> Eh, I support regime change in Iran
<8> I don't think anyone's stupid enough to use a nuke though.
<0> which is why I feel sorry for the people there
<7> Generals historically have been very luke warm as presidents. Ike was good in peacetime but too liberal with the peoples money.
<2> And again, Nukes aren't the only motivation for the US to want to invade Iran.
<0> Herzen so does the population there
<3> MrRod: i think Israel knows they are pushing it if they try anything with Iran
<2> Economics is another factor (oil-related) .. Iran is entertaining the idea of dumping USD for the Euro.
<9> canibud: People said that before Israel bombed Iraq.
<6> FT: do you support trade embargos against rogue nations?
<7> I prefer generals work with presidents not be presidents ;) Colin Powell is one exception I would of considered.
<3> the (muslim) world won't sit back while israel does any harm to Iran (the leader in this Islam vs. West war we are in now)
<0> hernick embargos are a bad idea I don't support them although you didn't ask me. Embargos never hurt the regieme
<7> Israel doesnt want to bomb anyone in the middle east, it doesnt help the long term neigborly relations, but bombing nuclear centers would be for them a survival issue..
<9> Rebec: Saddam and crew didn't seem to slow down their palace building plans.
<9> If Iran had nukes Israel would be screwed.
<6> It's easy to whine about how Iran is evil and speculate about what everybody is going to do about it.. But is there any good way to deal with Iran? Has anybody got a suggestion as to how Iran should be dealt with?
<6> MrRod: Iran nukes Tel Aviv, Israel nukes Tehran...
<9> e-Hernick: Yes. Send Jessie Jackson and Jimmie Carter.
<6> MrRod: and then the USA turns Iran into a sea of gl***
<9> e-Hernick: Never happen.
<3> i think this is the end of Islam's antiquated and distorted world view and this is the cusp of modernization that everyone has been waiting for for Islam
<3> their distorted views are being confronted head on in many areas right now
<6> You think that Islam is in the last throes of extremism?
<3> with Iran at the front of it all
<3> e-Hernick: yes -- I think it is being confronted now and they have to show their cards
<6> You know canibud, you may be right. If Iran gets fed up of ultra-conservativism and starts moving towards a secular state, it may well inspire the rest of the region to do the same..
<3> comments from Iran regarding the Mohammad cartoons -- the Holocaust (whether it happened - like wtF??) -- their nuclear ambitions - they are clearly setting themselves as the leader in this culture war with Islam
<3> e-Hernick: exactly! my point exactly
<6> Then again, there's always the risk that we'll end up with an ultra-conservative pan-arabic caliphate
<7> One Nuke positioned properly from Iran and Israel does no longer exist.
<0> MrRod did you read what I said?
<0> Rebec> hernick embargos are a bad idea I don't support them although you didn't ask me. Embargos never hurt the regieme
<1> Colin Powel is out of politics now I think. He's had enough. I was thinking someone like Norman Schwartzkopf or Wesley Clark. They have experience kicking *** and both are intelligent, that's what we need now.
<7> e=hernick, trade embargos are ok except typically they dont work.
<0> I am not sure how to answer your reply to me MrRod
<7> Iran may be an exception because they are poor anyway, Saddam didnt care because he didnt care about the people only himself.
<0> hernick I have a few suggestions actually
<7> I think in Iran you might see people revolt and protest if their government jeapoardizes their economy, on the other hand people sometiems become nationalist when their country is under the thumb of other powers even when the people otherwise would love to overthrow the mullahs.
<7> I dont think Islam is war for us.
<1> e-Hernick: And what happens when all that fallout hits Israel and other countries?
<7> I think Islam is simply 100 years behind the rest of the world, or maybe 200
<11> shweeet
<11> goin to san fran in july
<7> Actually not Islam, I should say arab monarchies and autocracies.
<11> ahhhhh yeah
<0> hernick you do realize the population wants reform right?
<0> and that half the population is under 30
<6> canibud: so, I take it that you agree with president bush?
<0> the hardliners won't give up control
<9> Rebec: No.
<7> Put yourself for a minute in the shoe of a devout muslim or even christian.
<3> since Iran is the leader in this extremist Islam struggle -- when they fall they will end up being a great example of what other extremist Islam nations are doing
<0> MrRod yes
<7> imagine yourself believing in the bible strongly and too literally
<9> Rebec: No, I didn't read what you said. Now I did.
<9> there
<11> anyone here from san francisco?
<3> e-Hernick: do i agree with him? yes
<6> What about Saudi Arabia?
<7> Then think about the wests decadence, and i can see their fear of the west.
<3> e-Hernick: Bush has no ambition to bomb Iran and he is being very docile and peaceful i think he's doing well
<0> MrRod oh ok, I am sorry. I didn't know how to answer your statement about saddam
<3> let it play out -- iran/extremist islam is going down
<7> They dont have the weaponry nor organization to fight ww3
<6> canibud: you agree with the strategy that if you stir up **** in the middle east, the fundies are going to rise up, burn out, and democracy is going to ensue?
<3> Islam vs. The West is not WWIII -- more like a mini war :-/
<6> I sure hope it goes your way.
<9> canibud: Does this mean no more vacations in Bali for me?
<3> e-Hernick: not quite
<10> The West would waste the Middle East
<3> MrRod: quite the opposite
<6> Cause the prospect of WW3 is scary
<10> Even without Nukes
<1> canibut: Of course they'll make a deal with Iran like they're doing with North Korea.
<3> in the future -- vacations in Bali and Tehran will be real
<3> islam will be moderate
<0> Herzen's new empire
<3> it will be a good future
<7> Well if they want to be left alone so be it.. But if they want to change the world, which I dont think they do I think only a minority are outwardly agressive. They will be killed.
<7> Though I think the vast majority would be happy to be left alone to thier own religion and customs.
<7> IM not including al queda..
<12> You say "they" as if there was a specific entity
<7> Nothing we can do short of war will stop al queda.
<6> canibud: I have to say it all sounds very optimistic, but I sure hope you're right.
<9> deku: There is a fairly specific set of attitudes.
<7> they = someone different the people like me.
<6> FT: you ***ume that there is such a thing as Al Qaeda
<7> Im an atheist
<7> I dont think I am included with them..
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