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Comments:
<0> Those of us who believe in evil are in charge, because the nihilists who don't believe in evil weakened us to the point that evil people have been able to kill thousands of westerners, and the majority are tired of it.
<0> Now all the nihilists and postmodernists can do is rage on the street and from their tenured university perches.
<0> ...While the rest of us get **** done.
<1> Pickle, how do you judge who is evil and who is not?
<0> P_O: By judging who is anti-human life and who is not, as well as what philosophies qualify as such. Those who oppose man's inalienable right to life are evil.
<0> Those who defend that right are good.
<0> And it really is that simple.
<1> You seem to be against "the right to life" of people you call evil. Doesn't that make you evil by your own definition?
<2> Why deny evil exists? What does evil mean ? It simply means horrible designs on abusing other humans like the guy who buried and raped a little girl while she was alive and buried her alive to die a horrible death its evil... Evil = Extreme cruelty to humanity. Its not that complicated nor is it emotional, at least it doesnt have to be, its simply an acknowlegement of an unforgivable in some cases cruelty in a personality..
<0> P_O: Why do I seem to be that way?
<1> Pickle, uh, cause you openly stated that evil people should be destroyed?
<2> Either we say in defining peoples actions, they are bad, or they are very bad, or they Are real bad or they are evil, I think Evil is just that which is beyond very very bad.
<1> Or at the very least implied it by saying evil should be destroyed.
<2> Its a degree of bad.
<2> It has no metaphysical consequence to me
<0> P_O: And I defined evil people as those who are violating the natural right to life. Defense of life is not evil.
<2> I am an atheist as I have said many times.
<2> Evil is no a religious concept its a definition of the extremes of cruelty
<1> Pickle, and my point is you're attacking _their_ lives. That you are not defending their lives. So by your first definition you are evil.
<0> P_O: I am not attacking their lives. I am defending life from them.
<2> To kill a killer is evil ? Not so.
<1> Pickle, I didn't punch you in the face, your face hit my fist.
<2> It is justice in the most literal since
<2> in the most ancient and literal sense.
<0> P_O: But I didn't, and that's the point. We do not attack, we defend.
<1> Pickle, saying that something should be destroyed isn't a defensive maneuver.
<0> P_O: Yes, it most certainly is.
<0> Or it can be, anyway, depending on the context.
<1> FreeMrkts, I don't say that evil doesn't exist, I just think it's a human made concept that has no real connection with reality beyond how it was made.
<0> If I destroy someone who attacks me with a knife, that is both destructive and defensive.
<0> And it is an action in defense of human life.
<1> Pickle, there's a difference between that and defining a large group of people who should be destroyed.
<0> By extension, if a police officer sees someone attacking me with a knife and fatally shoots them, they are also acting in defense of human life, and more broadly, the right to life.
<3> To make it simple the extremest's think we are evil
<4> killing 1 man is murder, killign 1 million is a statistic -Joe Stalin
<0> P_O: No, there isn't, if that broad group of people is engaged, as a group, in attacks against human life, or maintains an anti-life philosophy
<1> pilgrim`, that's a good quote.
<1> Pickle, that's what I'm saying though, you're maintaining an anti-life philosophy your self, it's just anti the lives of people you believe anti-life.
<4> Stalin also once asked how many tanks the pope had
<0> P_O: I know that's what you're saying. I'm saying you're wrong and I just illustrated why.
<5> if you two could agree on one analogy and dissect that, would you understand each other any better?
<4> I reserve the right to disagree withanyone damn fool enough to disagree with me..
<1> Semper-Fi, that would require we agree on something :P
<6> Abusive Domain or User
<5> I don't think understanding requires agreement
<0> Acting in defense of the right to life cannot be considered not anti-life. That's a logical contradiction.
<0> Acting in defense of the right to life cannot be considered anti-life. That's a logical contradiction.
<5> you understand the guy coming after you with his knife
<0> Sorry.
<5> while not agreeing with him
<4> I understand the ballistic coefficent of a boat tail at 2700gps
<2> This is weird I can not cut and paste at all from web sites.
<2> Anyway..
<4> Free....
<4> Get a Mac ;)
<1> Pickle, if you willingly destroy someone, are you not at the very least against their life? If you weren't then why did you destroy them?
<1> It makes no sense to destroy something if you're not against it.
<4> PO enemies attack you. not people; enemies
<7> BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- The European Union has cut off direct aid payments to the Hamas-led Palestinian government because of its refusal to renounce violence and recognize Israel, the EU's executive office said Friday
<1> pilgrim`, enemies are people though.
<4> I do not CARE what religion politics or taste in cola a man has coming at me with leathal intent
<0> P_O: Because they themselves are anti-life and are actively attempting to violate it or violate the underlying right to said. Simply killing someone doesn't qualify as such.
<4> PO enemies are dead..if you are alive. it really is that simple
<2> I believe in Retributive justice which means that you pay for your crime by recieving a like punishment which equals the crime, And in fact in the US the punishement constitutionallly must fit the crime, I subscribe to the punishment and balance view of justice. Take a life, forfeit a life, steal $1000.00 return the $1000.00 And as protection against future theft give another $1000.oo to who you stole from
<4> Free I believe in eradicative justice
<4> if an ant bites me, I backtrack to the nest and kill every damn ant I can find
<1> Pickle, you're picking up an implication that I have not implied, I'm not saying you're "wrong" for being against the lives of those who are against lives, but I say it is a contradiction none the less.
<2> I also believe in a harmonic justice, which means that Justice may not exceed that which is the crime. Justice must be rooted in intellect and not emotion. Justice must be determined by some objective criteria of whjaty is an adequate punishment for what kind of crime ? And so forth. Obviously it cant be 100% objective there is some arbitrariness which must be part of the process.
<2> Such as arbitrary age restrictions on Marraige or buying alcohol..
<1> FreeMrkts, what do you think should happen if someone kills two people?
<5> ah, the immaturity of not understanding the internal contradiction.
<5> it's like not understanding and escapement mechanism
<2> PO, Then he should be put to death.
<1> FreeMrkts, but being put to death only counts for one death.
<4> Free it works this way: poor or pissed of a power broker? 20 years for a misdemenor. Member of the power brokers: Suspended sentence for murder
<5> or how those gears in an old fashioned watch can have the greatest tension in one direction, because of the spring, and yet move backward, in the direction opposite to that tension
<2> But PO, this is difficult for me because I am not confidant that A) the death penalty is the harsher punishment to life in prison, and I worry about he misapplication of the death penalty.
<2> For me death would always be the easy way out, because I dont fear death
<0> P_O: I'm not picking up on any implication. You are saying outright that killing someone in defense of human life is itself an anti-life action. You are doing so because you fail to comprehend that by "anti-life" I mean opposed to the natural right of man to life, not simply killing as such.
<1> If I killed someone I'd rather be put to death than go to prison for my life.
<2> I view death as the freedom from pain and freedom from the emotions which are all part of the body.
<8> yearrrgh...got the bowl today :)
<4> Fre ask any blackin an older car, an affluent neighborhood who gets stopepd 1st
<1> Pickle, I do comprehend that, and you don't believe that people who are "anti-life" have the right to live, or else you would not want to destroy them.
<1> It is still a contradiction.
<4> Justice is blind, but she cna sure hear the chink of money
<8> pilgrim...or a white in a black neighborhood...
<2> A dead person can neither be unhappy nor feel corporal pain, even should there be an formless life of energy, But thats too in the clouds to get into, I only know death is the end of worldly suffering.
<4> Cry I am white; I lived several years in a black neighborhood
<8> grimmy...thats a quotable
<2> Life in prison would be much crueler for me than death.
<1> FreeMrkts, exactly.
<9> I am of the opinion that ones life is forfiet if a) person takes another life in cold blood b) if that person attempts to take another life in cold blood
<9> kill the bastids
<0> P_O: They do have the right to live. But the natural right to life implies as a corollary the right to defend life using whatever means are necessary, including means that cause death. This is why context is relevant.
<4> Free prison= money spent. death and buried = good work for an illegal alien gardner
<8> pilgrim youstill would stand a chance of being profiled
<2> Pilgrim I realize justice is not always fair, and like all human systems is flawed.
<1> Pickle, so you have the right to life so long as you believe others do as well?
<0> P_O: To put it more directly: When you attempt to violate the natural right to life, your forfeit that right yourself.
<9> if you wanna kill me, I want you dead before you can do it or at least after youve done it to see that you dont go doing it again
<2> Which is why I have some hesitations to decree an immediate eye for an eye and life for a life.
<9> Picke: exactly
<9> eloquently put
<0> P_O: More or less correct.
<2> Also the concern of the innocent being wrongly convicted of any race or social standing.
<1> Pickle, fair enough.
<2> I dont believe in reformative Justice unless its accomplished through punitive punishment.
<2> Or punitive justice.
<2> Let the punishment fit the crime.. A standard of american jurisprudence.
<10> nature doesn't give us a right to life
<2> And not just american because we brought it here from europe and even further back.
<9> Agreed, the punishment should not exceed the crime
<10> it gives us a right to inevitable death
<2> But let it also match the crime.
<9> rndhuman: we own nature
<9> freemrkts: yes, exactly
<2> There is an inscription on the Supreme court Building that says "To each what is his due"
<2> Nwo what is the due of murder ?"
<2> COmpared to the due of an honest days work ?
<10> nature always wins
<2> Death and money
<0> Nature doesn't give us rights, that is correct. What nature does is define what rights we have.
<2> But again, i have problems with the death penalty, sometimes I favor it sometimes I dont.
<0> We give ourself rights by defining necessary political conditions.
<10> Pickle: and by the laws of nature, we have to protect our lives, we don't have a right to life
<9> rndhuman: humans are above such things, we are humans and therefore we modify our surroundings. Nature is controlled for the most part by us
<10> we aren't above nature, we are a part of it
<9> with some exceptions
<9> we are above nature
<2> What I really dislike about the death penalty is how many liars come out to glorify the most gruesome and evil muderers like Tookey Williams, and That Mummia guy from PA.
<10> i dont' buy that. we are an individual expression of nature
<2> Mummia succeeded by political means to beat his rap.
<5> by the laws of nature, we have the right to ***ert a right to life
<9> when we became self aware and able to think abstractly, we went beyond nature
<11> they should call him stanley williams, not "Tookie" which sounds ****tarded
<5> whether or not that right existed
<2> Which means the political elite such as hisself get unequal justice than say a scott peterson.
<5> the right to ***ert it exists
<2> Even though there was much more evidence in the case of mummia, It was a prosecutors wet dream, a slam dunk, 4 witnesses, african american and white jury, Physical evidence proved it.. .
<9> Proof? we build ways to live outside our natural habitat, we device new ways to provide basics to each other. We do not leave our less than perfect to die, we device ways to modify our enviroment to make it more compatible to us
<2> Well hes still as guilty as ever but he defeated the states attempt to kill him.
<2> So even when I am against the death penalty when I see men of privalege or of fame get out of it it pisses me off.
<9> gotta go, later all
<2> I agree we are part of nature
<2> and that every act we do is an act of nature.
<2> whether it is deviant or thoughtful and just.
<2> The human animal carries the capacity to become a vicious member of an otherwise social species.
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