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Comments:
<0> it was WIndows update
<0> so in a way... yep. they were right
<1> genuine advantage?
<0> we thought we had turned it off, but somehow windows ha turned it back on for each of them
<1> amazingf
<1> there's a g.a. crack on usenet
<1> u want it? i can dl it for u
<2> fisherpri: there are some market watchers who think besides oil; the other reason the market is ****ing is because these corps are so afraid to invest their profits and want to sit on them in the bank earning 5% ~ etc.. for fear of another bubble-like crash
<1> hack those bitches
<2> in other words; the companies themselves are holding back the market.
<2> everyone is still gun-shy.
<1> well i guess that's not too far from adam smith's forecast of the market is only driven by it's players
<3> why is joe rogan famous?
<1> but its hard to ignore the trillions in real ***ets that also go into corporate moneys.. they're liquidated constantly for cash
<4> Gnar: didn't he **** some model?
<1> buildings, equipment, etc.. hard to think that only the cash accounts (not always the biggest income source) is holding back our economy
<3> loco: no idea
<2> fisherpri: when you get to 500 billion in cash accounts.. it hurts.
<1> is that the figure?
<2> lemme go find it.
<1> its no big deal..
<2> eh. ***uming the number is real; it does make sense.
<2> money; not doing much; is never as good as money doing stuff.
<2> money likes to move around :)
<1> sure.. thats wild
<1> i ***ume from your nickname you'd consider yourself a libertarian?
<1> i've been trying to learn more about it
<2> yes; tho not all libertarians would want to be called libertine.
<3> libertarians are fruitcakes
<1> yeh.. hence i chose my words carefully heh
<2> Gnar: why is that?
<3> they believe in stupid **** like open borders
<3> and no minimum wage
<1> no minimum wage, huh? wow that's an extreme view of socialism heh
<1> i never even considered things like min wage being a socialist program but it totally is
<3> libertarian is not socialist
<3> libertarians want no government control of commerce
<3> let 6 year old work in factories
<3> no minimum wage
<3> that sort of thing
<1> i confused myself, hang on
<2> Gnar: you think we need a minimum wage?
<5> minimum wage is socialist
<2> Gnar: do I as a worker not have the right to set my own price?
<3> libertine: yes i do. people can be exploited easily
<1> yeh and if libertatians vote no to min wage, it can be understood that min wage is a socialist program, no?
<3> you forget what was going on in the 20s
<2> Gnar: ah, so government exists to keep people from exploiting themselves?
<1> thats a bit unrelated..
<5> nothing was going on in the 20s
<1> anti-government and anti-market are different
<3> libertine: no they exist for a lot of reasons, one of which is to keep corporations from ****ing workers in the ***
<5> that's a myth
<2> the nature of government is always a fun discussion :)
<1> i love it hehe
<2> Gnar: take corporations out of the picture then.
<3> should factories be allowed to just dump toxic waste in rivers libertine?
<1> if corporations didn't exist, our world would be 100% different
<2> Gnar: why can I not work for $3/hr if offered to do so by another man?
<1> not in a better way, i dont think
<3> oh i see take anything inconvenient to libertarian philosophy out
<1> bye bye irc
<2> Gnar: no; I see no difference between corps and individuals; but you do.
<3> libertine cause when you have whole populations of people doing that you have enormous suffering
<2> so I suggested for this example to remove the idea of a corporation
<2> and stick with 2 people.
<5> lol
<5> yeah employement = suffering
<2> Gnar: if the suffering is so great; why would I offer to sell my services for $3/hr ? i picked that rate.
<1> i agree
<1> i hate work
<5> typical socialist idiot
<1> i'd rather discuss politics/philosophy full-time
<3> panini: im a conservative
<1> and smoke pot
<3> but there needs to be some protections
<5> gnar no, you're an idiot
<2> Gnar: protections from what?
<3> panini: no you're a moron
<1> there's no reason to insult
<5> and you are a socialist
<1> just throws the intelligence right out of the window
<5> but i'm being redundant
<2> Gnar: I as a worker want to work; I can increase my competitive advantage of finding work by setting a lower market price; why rob me of that freedom by putting in a minium wage?
<3> im a socialist for saying there should be minimum wage? please...
<2> why would you oppress a worker like that
<2> ?
<3> are you serious?
<2> dead serious.
<5> yup
<3> do you know nothing about history?
<5> 'fraid so
<1> libertine: how do you feel about unions? are they good for america?
<3> about the industrial revolution?
<5> yup
<5> but you don't
<3> about the kids with their arms cut off from machinery making 20 cents an hour?
<3> living 30 to a house
<5> lol
<1> Gnar, that was over 100 years ago
<5> you sure have your myths don't you?
<3> fisher: yeah and we put controls in place like minimum wage to stop that
<5> nope
<3> haah myth
<5> totally false
<1> that's not true lol
<3> you're uneducated
<1> minimum wage isn't to stop child slave labor injuries
<1> it was to stop the depression heh
<2> fisherpri: i have no issues with unions as a concept; but as an employer I would personally not want to deal with one; i consider the union issue to be a private issue handled between management and labor on a individual basis.
<5> we put minimum wage because of ignorance
<5> ignorane of economics
<3> panini: you're the ignorant one here
<3> i like having a middle cl***
<5> no, I'm the only one here who understands economics
<1> Libertine: that was about as close to a perfect answer as I could tell hah.. you should debate
<2> fisherpri: i don't believe in collective bargaining on principle as I prefer to reward individual merit.
<3> panini: you wish. you're uneducated i can tell
<3> libertine: so should we open our borders and be let 80 million mexicans in here?
<5> ANYONE who supports a minimum wage never studied basic econ
<3> panini: you're wrong
<1> the very idea of capitalism.. so if i understand you correctly, you do support a capitalist economy?
<3> i have a business degree in finance
<5> every econ textbook shows why min wage is bage
<2> Gnar: if we removed all social welfare first; then allowing 80 million people in is less of an issue as the free market would sort it out.
<5> no you don't
<1> Gnar what does the mexicans have to do with min wage?
<4> what you deal with in economics/etc is ideals
<4> or hypotheticals
<4> it enver involves the human factor
<1> they make 3 times min wage and dont pay taxes heh
<4> human factor = humans are unpredictable
<2> Gnar: the problem is; we live with a government that see's the poor as a net-loss per capita.
<3> haha the free market would crush us all into poverty if 80 million mexicans came here
<5> bad
<3> libertarianism is unworkable
<2> Gnar: in a welfare state as we have here in the US; adding people is a cost; not a gain.
<3> people exploit others and cant be trusted
<2> in a free market; the market resolves all growth issues over time.
<1> i dont agree.. i live in a city with a continuously increasing (exponentially) population of immigrants, both brasilian and south americans.. my city is THRIVING
<3> so we should all be living 30 to a home making 20 cents an hour huh?
<3> sounds like a utopia to me
<3> cmon...
<2> fisherpri: i am a captialist; yes.
<1> i have to agree with Libertine.. wage should be decided by the individual, not the group
<2> Gnar; actually; I think more families should live together for longer if they want to do better financially.
<2> the biggest waste of family resources I see is the culture of kicking kids out at 18.
<2> so they go into debt..
<3> yes but free markets remember? they have to compete with 30 mexicans in one house
<2> rather then keeping them home to save money to buy a home.
<2> it's a total waste in my opinion; but everyone has the freedom to do what they like.
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