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Comments:
<0> But we have also done horrible things.
<1> Publius yeh me too!
<1> but you know how it stopped losing them?
<0> Like The Japanese internmeent in WW2, I cant find any justification for it in my view of America.
<1> i attached something important to them
<0> Apparently Reagan couldnt eitheer.
<1> like my gold cross
<2> easy for Reagan to say, long after the fact
<0> Since he wanted them to get reparations.
<3> 426Hemi: so much effort
<1> not really
<0> Timur, Easy for Reagan to say.... WHEN he became president.
<1> sitting there taking a ****
<0> Because he actually had power to do it
<4> Timur-, What does the israeli press say about the the debacle in iraq?
<1> your necklace breaks
<1> take a bit of yarn off the rug your wife made
<1> bam!
<1> +)
<1> book mark
<5> 426...msg
<2> FT: Right
<2> jib:many things, but the last article I read was about how a disintegration of Iraq (presumably from a US withdrawal) would be bad not only for Israel but the region as a whole - civil war followed by the active intervention of regional powers, perhaps leading to a broader regional war.
<3> lol
<0> Not in the same intensity. That was, of course, a unique moment in history, and it's very tragic. It's more than embarr***ing, it's actually a very tragic moment for the Zionist movement, because the Zionist movement should have rescued the Jews, but it couldn't. It was too weak. And so the Zionist movement just had to watch as 6 million Jews were being slaughtered.
<4> Timur-, We have already made sure that we will be in iraq to prevent that
<0> This is timurs anti semitic historian
<0> They knew what was going on, they knew what was happening. They actually talked about 7 million Jews who would be killed, while most of the Holocaust [victims] were still alive. So they knew that they had lost all this, and they were helpless to do anything. It was a very, very tragic moment for a national movement whose whole existence was based on the ***umption that it would rescue the Jews.
<2> FM: funny, don't remember saying he was antisemitic
<2> just that his book wasn't the definitive work on Israel and was in many ways wrong-headed, which is true.
<0> So that's a question somebody had to ask. Some people have asked themselves after the Holocaust, "Are we still Jewish?" But, obviously, many people have asked themselves, "Are we still Zionists?" The Zionist movement had a lot of explaining to do. "How come we didn't rescue the Jews?
<0> It became a very, very central, and very, very painful issue in Israeli politics, because some of the opposition parties accused the ruling parties -- this is all pre-state, but it was really the same -- they accused them, "You have not done enough to save the Jews."
<0> I really wrote the book about that. In my book, my answer is that they really couldn't. It's a story of helplessness of the Zionist movement. But it's a very, very painful issue.
<0> Thats a reference to a 3rd book of his I havent read but I would like to read it and I will read it.
<0> The seventh Million Jew is the title.
<4> Timur: the problems come when Iranian ivasion is brought into the picture. This is disaster for both US and Israel.. it is my opinion.. but people out there just want to bomb irradiated material upon millions regardless of what I thhnk
<6> the libby/plame story just keeps getting better and better
<0> Hes saying jews need to stop blaming jews for the holocause which happend a lot after the war, He says he wrote the book to explain there was nothing anyone could do to stop it.
<7> ThePixies, why do you hate America?
<6> why does this administration hate america? :)
<6> treason
<6> seriously
<0> How to at that time in history what were there ? 13 million jews ? How do 6 million jews save 7 million in the midst of the greatest war in human history.
<8> plame was not undercover, whats your problem
<6> yes she was
<8> oh never mind, facts don't matter to you guys
<0> It was a painful issue. It was more than an historical issue. It was a question of people coming out of the Holocaust, arriving in Palestine, and facing the leadership, and asking them, "Why didn't you do something for us?" What do you say? I mean, it was a terrible moment.
<8> NO she was not and had not been in 9 years
<8> DUH
<2> jib: not only that; but say, put the Saudis and other Gulf States in the mix, add Turkey, watch explosion
<6> yeah thats why the case was even brought up
<7> ThePixies, no she wasnt..Dubya said so...are you questioning that? why do you hate America?
<8> she was not undercover had not been in 9 years... get over it
<0> The fact is this man is not anti semitic or anti zionist. He loves who he is but he wants to udnerstand it all , hes sitting on his dads leg and saying dad tell me it all, the good and the bad.
<4> Timur-, it would be a regional explosion against israel and the US
<6> :D
<6> this is fun
<4> more than we've ever seeen
<6> so that's still the spin?
<8> in fact she had BLOWN her cover in russia
<2> Free: good writing, but given that the Zionists were weak, perhaps that question would be better asked to, for example, the former leaders of the US.
<0> heheh Pixies, I watched a Harry Potter movie with Pixies last night.
<2> "why didn't you do anything for us"
<0> THe US is not joined at the hip with Israel, they are our Allied and they should never be though of as anything more.
<3> John Kerry would have ordered the pizza for me!
<0> We were slow to really recognize them, but now we have a very solid alliance with them.
<0> But its not from common ties, its for common security
<4> The Us and israel ARE joined at the hip as far as mid east policy goes. That's the way things are right now
<9> oh boy .. FreeMrkts is exactly right. We are allies with Israel but don't ever get your priorities wrong. It's America first.
<9> and tht is as it should be
<1> Cometbo!
<9> hey hemi :)
<1> I could see Comet talking like Rambob
<0> And the fact that we have the largest jewish population in the world, in the USA. Which Is understandable as we had a very high Irish population which got involved and still is involved in Irish politics.. Usually it takes a few generations to temper your relationsship with your motherland or your father land whichever when you are an immigrant.
<3> LOL
<1> "yo, whatch yoo juant?
<0> Comet, And even more important, Its what is right first..
<0> Now whom merely, BUt who is right.
<4> america first, but israel is struggling, we support its existence, here in the US as tax payers. That's nothing to be ashamed of. They are a thriving democracy with millions of opinions equally valued
<1> "I', liaake just sittin here yah know, tryin' to get some breffist"
<0> And when soemoen is wrong just as we self police our own country we should tell other countries allied or not that they are wrong.
<1> Cometbo
<0> Like right now CHina one of out 4th largest trading partners is terribly wrong.
<9> and the truth is that we are good allies to Israel. We have helped them more than any other country. We certainly do not owe them.
<3> this could make some cash
<3> hm
<1> I bet Comet wears suspendors sometimes
<4> There are ARABS in the Israel's Kinesset
<9> and there is no doubt .. our support for israel is the major source of anti-americanism in the muslim worlds
<0> Comet, we rescued them from the yom kippur war. We have done a lot for israel.
<4> That's how democratic they are
<1> camo flaged suspendors
<1> hahaha
<1> Comet?
<0> Oh make no mistake about it, Israel is not that democratic, Its a state comprised of many elements, Democracy is certainly one of them.
<2> who said 'owe'?
<1> i have never asked this but is your husband from nebraska?
<5> CometBo the movie???
<9> hemi .. lol
<1> not that i care
<1> i am just wondering
<5> I'm in
<2> the only discussion I'm interested in is what we as reasonable people owe to historical truth and the quest for knowledge
<1> like i would be like man this lady is psycho she is running around in a tornado!"
<5> uh huh...you will not have the SE deeded back to you
<2> but of course, there was that rather ugly fact that boatloads of refugees from Germany were sent back from the US to certain death.
<0> I dont care how other countries lived, but if Israel became a 51st state which it wont, it would no longer be able to have a right of return for the diaspora nor would it be able to have a jewish government, which is exactly why they wouldnt Want to become a 51st state.
<1> i could imagine Comet during a tornado
<3> DAMNIT
<2> speaking of historical responsibility.
<1> i would be like "YYYYEESS SIIIRRRRR!!!"""
<4> Timur, I am interested in human enlightenment and brotherhood and finding a path forward that looks further than 100 years
<5> cheating lowdown indians...ust like a ....white....man....hrmm
<0> And thats why I dont care if Iraq has a Islamic democratic state, as long as its an improvement and its not my country, to each his own.
<1> Comet would be like "TIE THE DOG DOWN TIE THE KIDS DOWN! GET YOUR *** IN THE SHELTEEERRRR!!!"
<5> and Hollywood
<4> I think america is ****ing its own citizens
<0> I do have serious problems with a christian almost murdered in a country we liberated
<9> Israel would be one helluva lot of responsibility to take on as a state. I don't think the people there would ever be allegiant to the US
<1> man i couldn't imagine living like that Comet
<3> Cryolas: I suppose that works for now
<1> i'd freak
<2> jib: it's nice to be able to afford such a long-term viewpoint, even to conceive of the possibility
<0> and I would enforce upon, Quite harshly on their government that being a christian must never be a crime.
<9> many in Israel came from Russia and are still communist believers .. and at the very least socialists.
<5> CB is from tornado country...they dig foxholes well
<0> And I am not a christian
<9> hemi .. yeah we have done it many times. We will probably be doing it again tonight
<5> CB..Israel will solve that in time
<0> but one of the most fundamental human rights is the right to believe in what you want to believe in.
<1> Comet=(
<2> Comet: no, very few Communists in Israel; as for the ones who are, they are most often members of Arab parties; and as for the Russians, most Russians in Israel (and elsewhere) hate the Communists p***ionately.
<1> if you guys ever need help
<4> Timur-, that's the dream to point towards.. I take an american perspective, and I see that we don't give a **** about so many people here
<2> which is why their main rep in the Knesset is Natan Sharansky, a guy who has no love lost for the Russian Communist system.
<9> Timur .. then why are there so many of them here in the US who are marxists?
<1> whatever it takes yah know, even if its justa bit of money
<7> Free, unfortunately the Koran and Haddiths are rather specific about what should happen to an apostate...one who rejects Islam and converts to another faith
<1> whatever
<9> Did all the marxists come here?
<0> Cometbaby, One good thing Netanyahu has done for Israel as a financial minister has been to really promote capitalism, Hes a great capitalist leader, as long as he stays out of foreign policy hes a really benefit to the Israelis.
<7> Sharia law and all that
<3> aaaagh
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