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Comments:
<0> I had friends who moved to Wood's Cross for Phillips Petroleum ... when the got back to Texas they unanimously agreed that the mormon neighborhoods ignored them the whole time they lived there
<1> e-Hernick: no
<2> e-hernick: we all got it coming
<2> e-hernick: IMHO, only athiests are going to heaven
<3> kingemer: if you don't need faith to be saved, what is the point of being a mormon?
<3> kingemer: what extra heavenly or earthly rewards do you gain from your faith?
<1> e-Hernick: i believe in a number of degrees of heaven
<3> ah
<1> and the unjust get the worst of them
<3> so you believe that you'll be going to be a more pleasurable heaven than others?
<1> the just, but unvaliant get the one in the middle
<1> e-Hernick: no
<4> I'm going to heaven Lup|ine?
<2> well, if the christian "heaven" exists.. sure as **** I'll be stuck there..
<2> NYheathen: can you think of a worst hell?
<1> and the valiant just get the best one
<3> does religion have anything to do with the level of heaven you get into
<5> sure, the Jersey turnpike.
<2> no rock-n-roll.. no drugs, no booze, no ***..
<6> as long as ***hats like Fred Phelps burn, I'm happy
<1> i believe that any truly great person will recieve the highest degree
<0> tweek: who is Fred phelps/
<3> fred phelps is evil
<6> you don't wanna know
<1> e-Hernick: it can, but being of another religion in this life does not exclude you from the best degree of heaven
<6> though if he ever protests the funeral of a soldier in your town, do me a favor and introduce a bullet to his face
<7> What did Lessing say about Socrates and eternal punishment?
<0> I don't know if it will help if there is a heaven and it's Mormon, but I have 8600 names in my family tree now
<6> just ... make it painful.
<6> very.
<6> be creative if you like.
<3> kingemer: do you believe that you would suffer from any heavenly consequences if you left the mormon faith today, but kept living in a just and valiant fashion?
<1> OcDoc: doing some genealogy
<1> ?
<0> kengemer: it was a p***ion of mine since my cousin and I started it as teenagers
<1> e-Hernick: considering as i already have a testimony of the truth, leaving the church would very likely put me in the just, but unvaliant category
<0> my great aunt had a four foot stack of family records at here home in Illinois and we used to go over to her house and sort through
<1> OcDoc: ohh, cool
<0> knegemer: I visited the SLC library one year
<1> OcDoc: find any thing interesting?
<0> my first tree was hand-drawn on a giant piece of butcher paper
<3> kingemer: that sounds rather twisted and circular.. If I get this right.. Once you've heard the mormon message, you can no longer be valiant without it.. but if you've never heard the mormon message, you can be valiant on your own?
<0> kingermer: sure! my daughters are related to one of the first governors of Virginia and Pocahontas
<3> in other words "once you go LDS, you can never go back" ?
<7> I don't know of anyone who qualifes as "valiant" except for Twobar.
<8> Does Mormonism even merit analysis?
<0> kingemer: and George Washington is a fourth cousin seven times removed
<7> OcDoc: Which governor of Virginia?
<1> e-Hernick: not quite. we are expected to act valiantly on the light and knowledge that we have
<0> I found a double line that goes back to the first kings of England, but you never know how reliable those links are
<0> praxis: sec
<3> kingemer: do you believe that continued membership in the church makes it easier for you to be valiant and just?
<1> e-Hernick: so having gained, of my own choice, so much of the light of the gospel, it would be an unvalient decision to turn from it
<3> of your own choice?
<8> what do you mean by valiant?
<3> I think that's the only kink in your armor. You didn't choose your faith, it was given to you, through indoctrination as a child.
<1> e-Hernick: i gained my faith and testimony by asking for it in prayer
<3> I think you've received it from your parents and your church.
<7> I think we should talk about how to study Spinoza as compared to, say, Maimonides.
<7> You go first.
<1> e-Hernick: plenty of people in the church dont have testimonies of it
<8> It would be kinda brave to leave the church, isolating yourself from your family friends etc. so I ***ume valiant means something else
<9> you know what i find funny? how with prayer when people claim to talk to god, you never hear people just go "wait a second, god is talking to me"
<9> its only when they want to
<0> maybe it was a Herndon ... there's a Herndon, Virginia
<9> god never interrupts them
<1> Doobs: valient in the light and knowledge that you possess
<8> Yes, because nobody ever talks to God. Even people who claim to are really saying that they experienced some nebulous emotional experience that they felt was mystical connection with god. they would admit this if you prod, i think
<3> kingemer: well, I'll give you this, your faith seems pretty solid. That's commendable. that's one thing I find very interesting about mormons, the teachings of the church are designed to be very resilient and resistant to challenge - a necessary thing given that mormons are expected to go preaching on their own
<7> OcDoc: Right close to Fort Marcy Park.
<2> Doobs: eh? god and I drink on a regular basis.. he says you are ****ed in the head
<3> kingemer: though your faith appears to rest upon circular arguments, especially the concepts of valiance, justice and divine confirmation of your faith..
<6> though I agree that resilience and fortitude are good things ... I don't see any real reason to hammer away at someone for something they believe that you can't provide evidence against
<10> vote for Pedro
<3> Well, there can be no hard evidence for or against any faith.
<1> e-Hernick: someone can have faith or knowledge of the gospel, and be entirely unjust and unvaliant
<6> in fact, it's rarely usefully efficent to convince someone of something
<6> by 'unjust' you mean 'biased, slanted, hypocritical'?
<0> John Rolfe married Mataoka Powhatan
<6> by 'unvaliant' you mean 'cowardly, neutral, indifferent'?
<6> just curious
<8> E-hernick: Well...you can sort of discredit it, if the religion is logical inconsitent with itself.
<1> tweek: i mean in relation to all of a persons behavior. acting immorally, including in judgements
<6> ah
<0> hah! Patrick Henry was governor of Virginia!
<3> Doobs: it's still interesting to see the defense mechanisms that people build.. mechanisms that have been given to them by their religions - but they have incorporated those into their faith in a unique way..
<6> 'mechanisms that have been given to them by their religions' - not sure I agree with this.
<3> kingemer: though you have to ***ume that the teachings of your church are "absolutely good"
<9> yeah, but they can usually explain anything away with the right 'explanation'
<6> I'm against religious ed at early ages, of course, but it's not like they tell how to dodge stuff.
<3> tweek: what do you think of dawkinians memetics?
<3> tweek: but of course.. circular arguments are among the first defenses that are taught
<6> my knowledge of psychology extends no further than what I remember from some freshman course
<1> e-Hernick: well, i dont believe that the local teachers are absolutely right all of the time, but i do believe that they teach from things that are
<8> Fear is the primary mechanism, so then you get pascals wager and it becomes foolish to not believe because your risk nothing by believing, and eternal torture by not believing
<6> if anything, arguments are given. counterarguments are given.
<3> tweek: I believe that all successful religions teach self-defense mechanisms
<11> true
<3> Doobs: I tried to go down the path of fear with kingemer, but he seemed insensitive to it
<3> Doobs: so I'm not sure that for him, it's the primary defense mechanism
<11> my teachers told the students that a jew can't paint a cross and such
<11> i was gonna murder her
<6> do it
<6> I'll help
<11> really
<11> can you send me some c4 to blow up my high school?
<6> as long as Thompson doesn't get wind of it and claim you were playing video games? sure
<2> bWHAHAHHAHAH this bud light commerical is great.
<2> "no, i'm fixing a leak in teh roof"
<11> haha
<11> thompson is gay
<6> seriously. ****.
<6> someone silence that mother****er.
<11> sure i play video games
<6> ***raping isn't the best way to silence someone...
<3> tweek: your violent thoughts make me think you played one too many video games..
<6> e-Hernick: DIE
<11> and if i whouldn't have played video games my school whould have been dust in a long time
<11> stupid religous fanatics :\
<12> hmm
<3> tweek: prepare for re-education!
<0> praxis: sorry I can't find a list of the early governor's of Virginia
<0> and my database doesn't list them by titles just names
<3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Virginia
<13> lingerie bowl in 25 min :))
<6> ... ****, he's been recently trying to link the killing of Robida to video games, even though *no one* but him has even brought them up
<0> ty ... that was my next move
<6> I googled 'robida video games' and found a long CNN transcript, with a report on Robida, and a few other special-interest stories, one of which was on backyard wrestling that made an offhand reference to video games
<11> san andres let's you off steam
<6> also a link to a report of a candlelight vigil in which someone's girlfriend mentions Robida himself used to play games...
<11> i want to play bully too
<2> Damn.. i'm ahead of schedule.. i'm at the half-way-point of this bottle of Hennesy, and it isn't the halftime yet
<8> whos robida?
<11> bully should be pure pwnage
<6> recently killed by some Nazi ****
<2> OcDoc: you know the BAC charts per weight?
<6> the media naturally couldn't wait to take it up and plaster his corpse all over the evening news
<11> i bet i could kill teachers there ^^
<14> that's sad. I'm watching the video broadcast of the Superbowl through a chinese channel, but I'm using the audio (for transation) through the ABC, Westward One broadcast. The audio doesn't fit the video feed because there is a 5 minute delay on the video broadcast. Who is putting a delay on the feed, the Chinese, Communist Government? No, they are not responsible for the delay, and that is ****ing sad.
<11> thouhg i imgine i won't be able to just blow up the whole thing
<2> OH DAMN!!! where is Rusty?????? Pixar is making a cartoon spoof no Nascar racing, called CASRA
<8> Whats the half time monstrosity this year?
<6> NASCAR spoof ... hmm, original.
<6> why Pixar?
<6> RussK: ...? who are you blaming then?
<14> americans should feel ashamed
<6> I blame propagation delay :)
<0> here it is! Edward Digges
<8> Russk: Whys that?
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