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Comments:
<0> It has more scholarly endorsements then any bull**** book I am aware of
<1> weezyl there are something in the bible i do believe
<2> mere citations doesn't ascribe validity of scholarship.
<0> Because it isnt Bull****
<3> Hemi - ain't nobody alive today what lived through early American colonial history, but we teach it lots. :)
<2> some isn't, some is.
<1> one of them is the fate of those who teach wrongly
<1> Weez, i can not teach you how to fire a gun if i never fired one myself
<1> its that simple
<0> its true and its chronicled and its based on facts and stories. He doesnt even tell you what to think he simply tells you what went on, And if you walk away from it, you dont feel partisan, You simply feel better advised that you were before.
<4> yea you can
<2> Rusty: I haven't
<1> and that applies with anything
<3> Hemi - Firing a gun and learning about history are two different things.
<1> you can't teach someone brain surgery
<4> every person fires a gun differently
<2> 'done' history, except in the sense of studying and analyzing it
<1> if you never learned the **** yourself
<2> I'm not sure how else one would be qualified to teach history. :)
<3> And I'm not comfortable substituting one set of skills for another, so for me, that's apples and oranges.
<4> you teach them to load, aim and fire the weapons, keeping it pointed in a safe direction
<1> some people can teach themselves how to play guitar
<5> I an do both
<0> Timur, you pretend to know his goals and his motivations.
<1> but they can't teach themselves how to write songs
<1> they had to learn how to write music somewhere
<5> 426,,,te Dylans...
<1> stoners don't count
<1> hehehehee
<0> Does it strike you so absurdly that he is merely seeking to write history from the set of facts he has ?
<3> Why not? :)
<5> Dad and son can play guitar...
<1> i can play drums
<2> Free: no, I know his goals and motivations from having read, again, both his own articles, interviews, and reviews of his work.
<0> Or that he has researched
<5> Son has better singing voice...
<1> i can't write music but i can play some ****ing drums
<5> but he lacks Dads lyric writing talent
<3> I can't write music, but I can play a clarinet.
<1> hahahhahahaha my wife would laugh if she saw me talking about this
<2> and that's precisely why I know it must be balanced against other sources that aren't seeking to further his viewpoint.
<0> I dont think anyone in the intellectual world believes he has an agenda other than writing history more honestly and carefully than a lot.
<1> one time i was stoned and drunk trippin my *** off on good acid
<1> someone set me in front of a drum set
<1> i went off
<5> then 426 made like he was in Iron Butterfly
<1> the entire set ended up on the ****ing floor
<1> tipped over
<6> lol
<0> was educated in Israel. I went to elementary school in the Hebrew University High School, and I studied history at the Hebrew University, and then I went to Boston University to do my Ph.D., mostly because I wanted to be in America for a while.
<1> with me "surfin" on them
<6> did you rock out?
<1> yeh man
<1> i freakin hit everything
<6> gnarly
<1> i was doing zep
<3> However, I've just "learned" that it is quarter past 1, and that I need to haul my butt to BART to get in to work.
<1> i was doing everything
<5> next time 426...record it
<0> I always wanted to be a journalist, and I'm very skeptical about the possibility of being a journalist, because a journalist never, almost never, goes to the final details of the truth. If you do history you know so much more. I have the documents. If I do journalism, I can ask the foreign minister, "What did you say in that conference, and what did Mr. Arafat say in that conference?" They will tell you the truth or not, probabl
<1> my wife to this day cracks up about it
<0> "What did you say in that conference, and what did Mr. Arafat say in that conference?" They will tell you the truth or not, probably not. If you have the documents, you feel that you have the story. History and journalism are very much the same thing for me. The best journalism is historic journalism and the best history is journalistic history.
<1> i started off sooo good
<1> i am only 4'3
<3> Y'all have a good time!
<0> I am sure that paragraph was cut off so there
<1> the set was built for someone who was like 6'3
<2> Free: I agree to a large extent with that
<5> you lose a foot in height 426?
<1> so no one could really see me
<2> mere documents do not history make
<1> Cry yeh 5'3
<0> If you do history you know so much more. I have the documents.
<1> sorry
<5> better
<7> What are you two fighting about?
<1> i hit the wrong button
<5> was thinking...drugs stunted yer growth
<2> there are an infinite number of nuances, personalities, shades of meaning, people who say different things at the same time to different parties, etc.
<0> How does this synergy work between these two crafts [of history and journalism]? Does what's going on in today's world, in Israel, what you're reporting as a Haaretz writer, does that affect or influence you when you go back into the archives, the kinds of problems you [choose] to work with?
<2> Arafat is a great example of that.
<1> all i could think was man i wished i was Tommy Lee!
<8> ok.. do the legals in this country that have been waiting 5 9 10 12 years to get citizenship get it now? or do the illegals jump ahead of them, and make those that are legal farther behind in the line?
<0> It influences in the sense that it dictates the questions to me. The situation today is so complicated and so difficult to understand that you need to go back to the origins of the conflict in order to understand what is this all about, why are we killing each other? You might understand it better if you go back to the origins of the conflict.
<0> Now, Israel is, of course, a very, very complex society, a very, very deeply divided society, and it's a very exciting society. It's a very exciting country to be a journalist in, and it's also a very exiting country to study. The history of it is very, very exciting and challenging. That's why I like doing both things. I sometimes think that I would have loved to be older and cover 1949, the establishment of Israel, and 1948, t
<1> i bet i looked like jhon belushi playing drums
<0> This doesnt sound like an antizionist
<7> Janet I don't know
<1> everyone was cheering me and ****
<0> That's why I like doing both things. I sometimes think that I would have loved to be older and cover 1949, the establishment of Israel, and 1948, to cover that story. Wow, that would be a great story to cover. So I couldn't, but I could write a book about it. So I felt as if I'm covering it as a journalist.
<1> but they were pissed afterwards cause it took like 20 minutes to reset the drums
<8> well, it seems to me the legals that have been waiting that are here are getting totally left out of this debate
<1> but man i had fun
<0> You are called one of the "new historians" in Israel. Who are the new historians, and how do they contribute to the dialogue in Israel?
<0> Most of the new historians are elderly gentlemen by now, because it's an old story. It started fifteen years ago, or perhaps even before that.
<0> That doesn't make you old!
<0> No, it's old stuff they're doing; Israel started to open official archives.
<6> haha drums take alot of preparation yea
<6> im glad im not a drummer
<7> Janet of course, I think the illegals should be removed and the legals should be given opportunities to move ahead
<2> Free: and again the question is 'what does it mean' to have these facts; how will they be used, to what end?
<0> Israel has a relatively liberal policy of opening archives; it's more liberal than other countries. Not liberal enough for my taste, but more liberal than other countries. Twenty or fifteen years ago it became possible to write Israeli history.
<0> This sounds like an intelligent informed man, not a crusader and I know he is not a crusader anyway..
<1> see thats the whole thing
<0> Before that we didn't have Israeli history, we had mythology, we had ideology, we had a lot of official indoctrination, but we didn't really know what happened.
<0> Why ? Because they didnt have the archives of history ?
<2> and the Arabs still have pure and unadulterated mythology.
<8> Rebec.. well of course... but the the ones that are legal.. are not going to get to be citizens NOW... or for many years to come it seems to be, cause the legal immigration will be put to the back of the buss, cause our quotas will be filled for years in this ruling
<1> I would have sympathy for McKinney if she was like "Hey i get stopped all the time here, I am Cinthany McKinney"
<0> How the hell can you study history before the documents are released which make up history ?
<2> but of course, they didn't give me 70 thousand dollars, so I can say that.
<1> then i would be like "hey she is right!"
<1> this is bull****
<0> Is like writing a history of the Iraq war now.
<1> she needs to be put in jail arrested for ***ualt
<2> Free: it's harder, but history consists of more than mere documents, important as they are
<0> I have said 100 times on this channel the history of the Iraq war will be written 50 years from now, the good historical writings.
<9> Fallujah movie comes out next year
<1> great
<0> There is documentation now, but there is not the perspective of years in which to analyse the history.
<1> Hollywood needs a bad guy
<0> And also there will be cl***ified government documetns some which wont be available for as much as 25-50 years
<1> for so many years it was the russians
<1> then it was the german/nazis
<1> that **** wore out
<0> The new historians are really the first historians. They are people who go to the archives, take out the file, look at the document, and say, "Wow! This is not the way I learned it at school! It's all different! They lied to me!" This is why fifteen years ago all these books had such a shocking effect, because many people said, "This is not what we learned at school."
<1> then itwas arab terrorists
<1> then it was "Imperial forces"
<0> This is typical for a young nation, and it's part of nation-building that the establishment would try to shape history and dictate history, and provide some kind of national mythology; but once you go to the documents to see what they really talked about in closed sessions you say, "This is completely different."
<0> A group of us started to look at those documents and write these books. Some of them are connected to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and some deal with other subjects. But it all turned out to be very relevant for today, because the problems are the same.
<2> Free: he's talking mostly about Israeli education; not as much the rest of the world which doesn't really have much clue, and has had a pretty significant history of supporting, more often than not, Arabs vs. Israelis.
<1> I love that Imperial music
<0> When you talk about the discrimination of people who came from Arab countries to Israel, for example, the non-Ashkenazi Jews, this is still very relevant today.
<6> music rules
<1> duhduhDUHDUH duh DUHDUH duh Duh dahhhh
<0> Hes talking about history in general
<0> Timur
<0> Something you are not
<0> A historian
<0> What he says is obvious on the face as being truth
<1> duhduhduhd Dah Duh dahdle duh duh
<1> hehehhe
<6> haha
<0> the fact that history cant really be understood until some time after it occurs
<1> FT is an Iron Maiden fan he likes
<0> much of what we believed about the founding fathers for example has been bull****.
<0> And those of us who have chosen to be reeducated about our founding fathers find brilliant but flawed men.
<10> you mean George Washington didn't chop down the cherry tree????
<0> Men who by todays standards would be impeached and in prison perhaps.
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