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Comments:
<0> oh wait; they do.
<1> because intellectual property is as private property as is My invention of a better shovel.
<2> Libertine NO! they Do?
<2> Free try it
<2> been ther, but my tee shirt was stolen
<0> yah; it only happens every week tho.. it's not too much that people haven't riot'd yet.
<0> except in Sweden...
<2> Sweden said FU to the US
<1> To claim to be a capitalist and not recognize intellectual property rights is to be disingenous wiht one self, its clearly socialist to not have a patent or copyrite system. The Problem is how the law is written.
<2> and I admire them
<2> Free that is NTO what I am saying
<3> It's almost enough to make me like Sweden.
<2> I have seen legal beagles steal I have personally experienced just that
<0> eh, copyright is alright with me; so long as it is reasonable and fair.
<1> Pilgrim, I know I think what you are saying is the way the law is written ****s
<4> IP is unenforcable is the problem.
<0> US copyright is not fair or reasonable...
<2> I am saying the old copyright laws were just and valid, the new one is a fraud
<1> And I think I agree with you based on reading the complexity of the law
<0> the day will come that fair use is completely gone; trust me. its coming SOON.
<1> Pilgrim no argument with you there.
<0> when fair use goes; people will be pissed.
<4> When you can "steal" something and have it not be missing, how are you to even know the theft took place?
<1> Pilgrim there are 3 of us in here or maybe just 2
<0> technically; some aspects of fair use are already gone per the DCMA.
<0> tho it's still in the courts.
<0> er DMCA.
<5> P_O IP works everyday
<6> thats what court battles are for
<5> it works everdy in every city of this country
<1> There are those who dont believe in any intellectual property there are people who believe as you and I do that their should be intelelctual property and there are people who I presume might support hte current system which is ****ed up
<6> claim ownership, pull some fake "evidence" out of that air, have better lawyers
<6> just ask amazon
<2> the record companys have traditionall used every means possible from payolla to the "Contract" to keep the money. they have ripped off almost every artist who picked up a guitar. This is just the patest tool
<5> as a matter of fact IP works far more than it does not work
<4> rond, I've "stolen" the intellectual property of hundreds of entities, and they don't even know that I have.
<6> or maybe net-zero
<0> i think the only people who really support the current system are either ignorant of the system's abuse; or benefit from the system in some way.
<1> Pilgrim, I understand your position, it makes a lot of sense, what doesnt make sense are these socialists who deny intellectual property rights entirely and would put an end to robust discovery and research and creation of art
<4> When someone steals an egg from you, the egg is gone, when someone copies a song you have the rights to, you still have the song.
<5> just because you decide to be a thief does not mean IP does not work
<0> or.. they just feel it doesn't involve them. heh
<4> To compare IP to real property just doesn't make sense.
<5> thats why its called IP
<6> P_O they dont care about that, if you were proffiting from it, then they would care
<5> its not real property in the sense of a chair
<5> but it is real property
<1> It would kill the pharmacueticals which a lot of peopel would enjoy only they are shooting thier foot to spite thier fave, the drugs for profit companies make may well save our lives some day.
<5> and it does work
<0> im still sick from when people patent 'business process'
<1> May well have already saved mine.
<4> rond, I don't think you can truely own something you can't touch.
<0> "One Click Shopping - The IDEA ...."
<6> amazon has patented the "one click buy"
<0> patenting a freaking idea.. I know.. Im gonna patent "Pay as you Exit!" ...
<6> htf do you copyright an idea?
<0> then ill sue every store in the country.
<5> P_O your full of all sorts of young ideas
<6> not even a particular method of acheiving the idea
<6> just the blanket idea
<6> who the hell would even give a patent for that?
<1> Libtertine, it can get absurd. But then if you invented the idea and are the first one on the block, Maybe you deserve it..
<5> when your handed a check of say 25k for a name
<1> Thats a hard decision to make.
<1> They did invent it, as far as we know.
<5> (as I have been) then you might change your mind a little on IP
<0> FT: one click shopping is not an invention...
<6> i want to patent the concept of using packets of data over copper lines to share information between remote hosts
<6> :P
<1> Thats the beauty of any new revolution people only make money by patenting their own discoveries.
<5> Its pretty damn cool under that scenario
<1> Economic revolution
<4> rond, the way I look at the world is this. Think about digital images. Every digital image could be composed by a random number generator. I could make a random image generator right now that'd have a chance of creating a masterpiece of modern art, do I really own it if I do?
<5> yes
<4> Hell, think about digital music, every song you've ever heard could've been made by a computer.
<1> Amazon would of been liable to its stockholders had it not tried to patent the one click shopping idea.
<4> Things are just way too different in the digital realm.
<5> no there not
<6> how do you patent the "idea"?
<5> just a little bit different
<6> thats not unique
<1> Although judges are there to say, Sorry thats too generic and you cant define it because of its generic nature.
<6> everyone had that idea im sure
<1> You need more specificity.
<6> its just the method for doing it that should be patentable
<1> YOu cant patent the air we breath its generic.
<0> FT: so long as the US Patent Office makes money off APPROVING patents; the problem will not end.
<4> rond, you think that the infinite of the digital realm is comparable to the finite nature of m*** in the real world?
<6> i want to patent the idea of making an airplane out of paper, not any particular style or type, just ANY airplane out of paper
<1> Thats not the problem they dont make that much, I just read about what it costs.
<5> lol nature is far more infinite in its designs than anything man can do
<1> The problem is the law the way it is written as Pilgrim hit on.
<6> thats basically the same way amazon had their patent, just a concept not even in usable form
<0> patent.. "One Stop Pissing"
<4> rond, it's infinite in possibility as all things are, but it is not infinite in the sense of m***.
<1> BMC, you cant patent an idea which has never been built.
<5> and ??
<1> And why not ?
<4> rond, and that is how they are different.
<1> If you draw it out on paper, and if you figure it out.. You should get the rights to it.
<5> is there a point to what your saying
<5> simply put the world is a better place when we honor each others work
<1> Let the big manufacturers and engineers come to you to pay you for your idea, which is your invention.
<6> thats how amazon and net-zero enforced their "copyrights", it doesnt matter how you did the one-click buy, and it doesnt matter how they used to ads to offset the cost of internet service
<4> rond, that the two concepts are different enough to the point that traditional property laws shouldn't be applied to the digital realm?
<6> they patented the concept itself
<5> no they should be changed
<5> just a little
<5> but they should not go away
<5> a computer is just a tool
<5> thats all
<5> its a nice tool for a new kind of creativity
<4> Then why do you not keep yours in a shed?
<5> and that creativity should be protected
<7> Yomie, homies.
<1> The problem is in law I believe is this too generic to patent, for example could you patent a Cash Register ? Yes the design of one, but not the concept of one.
<6> net-zero basically single-handedly destroyed free internet service
<6> :P
<1> Since so many businesses need cash registers you cant own the rights to all of them only a specific design.
<5> If we are not going to just naturally honor each others creativity
<5> then laws will be created and struggled with
<1> Thee A53 Atlantis Cash Register
<6> advertising isnt a new concept
<1> But not cash registere
<1> and Thats what judges look for in deciding cases such as 1 click.
<1> But amazon would be foolish to not try.
<6> does someone own the patent to the concept of using commercials on tv to offset the cost of programming?
<1> BMC, people dont own the concept of commercials but they own thier specific commercial
<6> no, i mean in comparsion to using ads to offset the cost of internet service
<1> You cant copyright what are generic products, such as carry out to your car from a grovery store
<6> its the same concept, different media
<1> Or Buying on credit
<1> But you can copyrite Paypal.
<0> what people need to remember is; the government protects patent holders in exchange for the quid pro quo of giving up the secret/design of what you are patenting; so when the patent expires - society benefits. in exchange for this; the government grants you a temporary monopoly on that item.
<0> the problem is; we keep INCREASING the time till when a patent expires.
<5> the problem is people keep trying to gray what should be a natural thing
<1> Yes the only problem is when the law is not clear. That is to me the obvious problem based on the complaint which started this debate. and based on reason if you read a copyrite lawyers experience with it.
<5> they gray the concept of just honoring other peoples work
<4> Libertine, I think these days that secrets wouldn't die with companies as they once used to.
<1> So, it is clear that the answer to the question is not simple. Not all the patents are expired, but some are and a few more will be this time next year. The trademarks and copyrights are still valid and enforceable. Furthermore, if past behavior is any indication, Nintendo will litigate to protect its IP rights. On balance, making an NES-like console in the next century appear to be a legally risky proposition.
<0> P_O: you'd be right.
<8> lol Iran's Supreme leader of the weekend!
<1> http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051111/boyd_01.shtml
<5> as soon as you do that then you have to delve into the world of trying to come up with laws that fit every concept
<4> Libertine, which kinda invalidates the whole need for the system.
<1> Excellent well reasoned explanation on that page
<4> It just delays the benefit to society.
<0> my issue with patent law is the government once again being used to hurt the free market; by granting long term monopolies on ideas.. well beyond any reasonable amount of time.
<1> But we were talking about china using 500k copies of Windows without paying for it and is that morally right ? And I hope everyone knows it isnt.
<0> said it before; ill say it again.. the government has done more to create monopolies then the free market ever has.
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